They could have done a spin off in a completely different village with mild name dropping and cameos. It probably would have been more interesting and less inconsistent than what we have. "Why doesn't Burrito have Byakugan at birth? idk Lulz." 

Instead, in order to uplift the offspring characters the old ones are constantly getting kitten on, their personalities warped and basically desecrating everything people loved about them to begin with. I'm not kidding when i say i would rather them be all dead :zaru: 

This is 100% the route they should have gone. The original was always about Sasuke Naruto, we were always in Konoha, a sequel would have been a perfect opportunity to explore other parts of the world, like the old Star Wars Expanded Universe. 

 

 

Inuyasha/Kagome Inuyasha

Ranma/Akane Ranma1/2 

 

There are many shounen manga where the lead male ends up with the lead female who is a tsundere but I guess Kishi made an exception even if he did the 15 year old development (which it was a red herring ).

I think there was an anti-tsundere trend going on in Japan at the time, though it was probably a vocal minority. Watsuki mentioned this when making the rebooted Kenshin (the one where Jin-e had swords THROUGH his hands). Maybe the trope does need to be redone and go into hibernation for a while, but if a story was already being done with those tropes, it had to follow through with it. 
Like maybe one day people will be turned off by gore in some situations. Maybe future stories should address that change in taste, but ongoing stories already using that need to keep using that, otherwise they will just betray what they once were.

 

Endlessly creepy. And the last one, its the same fake smile they kittened at Sai for. 

It was at that moment Sakura realized she made a terrible mistake.

 

I’m also perplexed by these NH fans getting triggered over fanfics, years after the ending. They’re FANFICS; if they were a threat to the actual canon, one of them would be animated by now. Jeez, if our ship became canon, I just wouldn’t have anything to do with them.

 

Besides, 90% of fan fiction has pairings different from their original canons.

 

https://mobile.twitt...099139274571777

 

"Are people seriously treating the MangaPlus numbers as representative of Boruto's success? 

Seriously?"

Went on that twitter to see if this commented on Samurai 8 or Boruto again. Also someone made a comment I have been making about online views (youtube/managaplus) for Naruto/Boruto:

"The views would be fantastic if they actually also help in sales..."

 

I made a similar comment about that once before. I think people are INTERESTED in Boruto, but so far it hasn’t done much to justify being bought/supported. It’s just regurgitating everything from the original and doing nothing with it.

 

speaking of tmnt, anyone seen batman vs the teenage mutant ninja turtles yet? I thought it was pretty good. also I prefer the 2003 turtles and the turtles forever crossover over the 2012 ones. I mean I get that its cool they use more actual ninjutsu and all, but the designs, the comedic tone, and stuff like april being a high schooler turned me off. they changed too much lore and character stuff for my tastes. the big thing though was the whole donatello x april stuff. gives me too much of a sonic x elise vibe lol. I like 2003 because it was a more serious version of the turtles with the best versions of shredder and etc and was so expansive.   and yeah gajiin gooma makes cool videos, and yeah naruto was always so weird and I didn't like how they're supposed to be ninjas but aren't real ninjas, and was annoyed when pokemon copied naruto basically for its ninja village in kalos. I'll take ninja gaiden's ryu hayabusa over naruto any day of the week lol

You need to see the 2012 series again, because even with the silly stuff, it is by far the darkest turtles yet. The mutations are horrifying, the rivalry between Splinter and Shredder has never been more intense, and IMPORTANT characters have died in this one, JUST shying away from gore while still making you say ‘This is a kids’ show?’

 

In all fairness to Naruto, most modern ninja in media are WAY off. But I think Naruto was a missed opportunity to find a halfway point between fantasy and reality in regards to ninja.

He had the passion to DRAW the characters yeah, but it doesn't seem like he was really invested in the story, if all he was doing is asking how to make it popular. 

 

 

 

Yeah, that's the thing that I never got either; how someone can only just be in it if it's popular rather than telling a good story.

The thing about art is that you have to pursue it for the love of it, not for the success it will bring...because the odds of that happening are slim to none in the first place. So few works ever get a chance to shine in the mainstream, and even fewer actually stay there.

 

I guess Kishimoto saw the success of DragonBall and wanted to copy it, without realizing its popularity was an accident. Most mangaka are broke as kitten. I think he had a panic attack when he realized what he had gotten himself into and prodded Yahigi to help him make it popular.

 

I do still think most of the softening of the story is more Kishimoto growing older, having kids, and having a minor panic of I don't want my kids to see something violent. What the change of editors did was make the story have more plot holes and become more inconsistent. Partily due to them trying to screw around with the story, and partly due to them not being able to both help and rein in Kishimoto.

 

Kishimoto does his best work when he has a good editor supporting him; enough to produce the third best selling manga ever. Without a good editor...he is. Ok, does too much exposition and has some weird idea but at it core still has a decent story.

 

 

I honestly feel like if its "Because he had kids." He would have written a story in which bad guys have to face justice. In which there are people who are just BAD and there is no explaining it. Because that teaches a real-life reality. It becomes a cautionary tale rather than "Don't worry every bad thing you do doesn't mean a thing because a golden child will be sympathetic to you UwU" 
 

 

I can’t speak from personal experience about kids, but Kishimoto could have simply not let them read it. Spielberg forbade his kids from watching Jurassic Park when it first came out, and he still went on to make Saving Private Ryan. Roberto Rodriguez made things like Spy Kids, and he still made Machete. Besides, even the grittier stuff he wrote was targeted towards kids. 
As for the messages he was trying to pass, yeah, not a good idea. I think it’s wonderful to pass a moral message to your readers, but it has to be in a way that is practical for the real world. 
In Orochimaru’s case, he could have had characters forgive him as a person, but imprison him for his deeds nonetheless. Kishimoto could have used the past atrocities to highlight how many of them did what they thought was right, but show their actions were still wrong and now they had to live with reasonable consequences. I could go on, but there were so many other ways to competently preach about peace and forgiveness. Naruto wasn’t one of them.

 

I don't know if he did everything he could to finish, because he was still churning out new characters all the time when he could have just focused on a few and finished if he had the ideas to do so--he was just bored of the MC and didn't really know what to do anymore and then he really screwed up by Overpowering Madara to the point that he had to make Kaguya just to get rid of him. It just becomes so damn bizarre at the end. 

I think Kishimoto stopped with the tactics because tactics are hard to figure tbh. It's easy to just give random power-ups and OP abilities rather than focus on minute details. "Why bother with trickery when I can just railgun through the door!"

 

 From what I remember, he wanted to develop Kakashi and Sakura more, but I guess his editors said no to those. I feel like the war arc was a big catch up/cram session in an attempt to flesh out the world he created; something he should have done much, MUCH earlier. 
 

You pretty much nailed it on why tactics were thrown out the window. Even so, Kishimoto could have asked his assistants to research ninja tactics and war strategy. The problem with this, though, is that Naruto since its inception wasn’t really about ninjas. 
This is why I love the 2012 TMNT; they use ACTUAL ninjutsu and strategies in their battles. Just watch Gaijin Goomba’s video on the Ninja Turtles.

 

Kishimoto could have also used more of the works that inspired Naruto, particularly Jiraiya. Again, watch GG’s video with Johnny Young Bosch. 
 

You know what, just watch all of Gaijin’s videos, because they are informative and just awesome.

@Nate
Regarding a comeback, it would take time, but if he would just take a break and wait for the controversy to die down, try to avoid the things that may have landed him in trouble to begin with, he could have at least get a small role or two and build himself back up. Many celebrities have gotten in all sorts of trouble before, and usually get back in the game eventually (though to be fair, most said celebrities were much more well known and richer than Vic)

And ooh boy, this fallout. Seriously, the Vic Stan’s are such sore losers, and need to think about this. Little Nicky told you this was a slam dunk, yet every other lawyer following this case was telling you guys this wasn’t going to go the way he said it was. Now why do you think that is? Did this Nick guy know something these other lawyers didn’t? No, it was because he was lying to you so he could get your views. And then there were the Death Threats on the Judge’s Facebook page. Really, how did you think that would turn out?

This whole thing should have been a red flag from the get-go. I read Reiketta’s little rant before this case started, and it’s not a piece I’d expect from an educated lawyer. If you were to ask me who wrote it before I knew who, I would have guessed it was from a 14 year old edgelord who found his dad’s liquor cabinet. He’s also not taking criticism well, calling others “mutants” and telling them “Go back to Greenland! (For those who don’t get this, Greenland has a high rate of suicides). Plus, he’s insisting that there’s a path forward from here. Considering this was dismissed with prejudice, the only way that’s going to be possible is if they can prove to a higher court that the judge did something wrong, which is going to be another uphill battle. Seriously, this guy is proposing legal challenges that are by most accounts almost impossible to win. This is a grift that he’s desperate to have keep going, because he didn’t anticipate this would be over so quickly, and all he had outside of this is traffic court. A valid profession, but I guess no one gets famous doing that.

It’s time for you all to let this go. If you never want to watch a Funi dub after this, that’s your business. Fact is, Vic didn’t have a case. All they had was Rial and Marchie liking a post. That’s not evidence of a conspiracy; if anything it’s evidence AGAINST Vic. Fact is, he’s been having these accusations against him for years. He had every opportunity to stop and think “You know, I’m upsetting some people. Maybe I should watch myself.” Even if he meant no harm, he was too full of himself for that self awareness and kept going, and now this is the result.

I don’t watch Karen Rider, but that episode certainly sounds interesting. It feels like it’s a (Well-Deserved) attack on the manga industry as a whole, but Kishimoto is definitely the worst example of it. At least most other mangaka had an inkling of an idea about what they wanted their stories to be about. Look at the pilots for Rosario Vampire, Rurouni Kenshin, Death Note, Food Wars, Bleach, etc. While many details have changed in the actual stories, you can see the themes and many characters where the same.

Naruto, not so much.

I do understand that the industry is extremely stressful, and it’s easy to see mangaka lose passion for their stories. The problem is that Kishimoto never had that passion to begin with; he just went along with their suggestions for the sake of money, and found a point to drop out.

There’s also the issue of how to determine popularity: The most vocal does not mean the majority. I bet many fans don’t vote in polls and what not, if only because they just want to enjoy the stories as is. Plus, if you hear people complain about your story but it seems to be doing well regardless, I’d recommend you follow the money rather than the fan-mail.

You know, it really baffles me how SP has been handling these pairings. I mean, it’s ONE THING when they’re poorly developed into canon. It’s another when after it happens, they go out of their way to make these pairings as miserable as possible.

We go through the Last, where out of nowhere Naruto is depressed without Hinata and how he wants to be with her...and then we keep him away from home as much as possible to cause a rift with his children. Hinata was apparently the girl for him because of her sweet demeanor, except for those times she does go Tsundere. Why? I can buy maybe one arc where things aren’t going so well, but it’s so odd they went through that kind of trouble for this. And when they cite Sakura’s attitude for them not getting together, why pass those traits onto Hinata?

Then with SasuSaku, we SOMEHOW get them together. Then we learn Sasuke hasn’t been home in 12 years, they make a story implying Sarada isn’t Sakura’s child, and every opportunity they have for intimacy, Sasuke does less than the bare minimum and ditches her again. And with this new story, apparently Sakura initiates the kiss for some reason other than love (though to be fair, that probably is her excuse), and in front of Naruto. Again, why? Wouldn’t it have been smarter to at least imply that the two overcome these difficulties? You could still have Sasuke away from home often but show that he still comes back home regularly too, which would be more beneficial to them in the long run. And who told them that Naruto Gaiden would be a good idea? Moving on, why highlight a SasuSaku kiss in front of Naruto if the characters are married? I thought we established that Naruto didn’t really love Sakura in the Last?

There’s s part of me that thinks someone is actually trying to sabotage the Naruto franchise. They don’t have the power to outright cancel it, but it seems they’re picking a few parts to make it all crash and burn. If I was a producer, even if I hated what the show had become, I’d at least try to avoid causing problems like this and focus on the action. At least that way it would be easier for people to get over it.

As for time travel in Naruto, it happened in the Lost Tower. The reason THAT worked was because
1) The movie wasn’t canon, so if what they did made no sense it wouldn’t have affected the franchise
2) They sent Naruto to a point in time where Minato may not have even been married yet, and Kakashi was still young. So basically it was a casual loop, and Naruto was in a situation where nothing he did would change any past events we already saw.

That ain’t going to work for Boruto. There is nowhere that I could think of in canon he could go to back in time to without changing the past.

Also, I was reading a book called the Power of Myth, which is basically Bill Moyers interviewing Joseph Campbell about myth. Early on, they talk about marriage rites, and Campbell notes how couples who rely on their children to stay together ultimately split once their children grow up. Kishimoto also noted how Boruto was literally what held NH together. So, by these standards, when Boruto grows up...

Oh, I forgot. They kill Naruto in the future, at least according to Kawakii. Maybe they did so to avoid an NH divorce.

Im honestly still of the opinion that if they wanted to do it right Madara being sealed should have ended the war and the series,
 
Kaguya then would have made for the epic final villain of the Last Movie. with Toneri being Black Zetsu in human form having possessed a willing host who wants to destroy the so called new system created by the Shinobi to avenge his family lost in the wars of the past.
 
you get the build up to Kaguya and the epci climax
 
you get meaning for the Shinobi world and its change to the more modern one
 
you get a whole new story

Funny, I was thinking something similar for my own reboot...if I ever get that far.

Well, I’ve followed the case best I could over the past few months. My conclusions:

1) Vic is a creep. Let’s just get that out of the way right now. He corroborated many things he was accused of in his depo; the hair pulling, inviting young girls to his room, etc. Plus it seems it’s been confirmed in his past he’s hired sex workers when he was younger and cheated on his now ex-fiancée multiple times when they were engaged. This is s definite pattern here. Even some lady calling herself the Vic whisperer said “he really likes the ladies”, like he’s some dog who can’t help but jump a leg. There was a security officer who came out saying he saw Vic as a security threat. I also listened to a podcast recently (Nerd and Tie I believe it was called) where one of them told how he helped run a con Vic was banned from before this blew up. He explained “The last time he was invited, Mignogna violated our harrasment policy several times over. At the time I worked there, we saw him as a liability and we banned him from the con.”
Now, I don’t believe that Vic pinned someone’s arms down and stuck his man parts where they didn’t belong, but it seems he was getting too frisky with some girls, and that’s grounds enough to be fired from any company.
Also, unless more serious allegations come out, Vic isn’t going to jail. That was never the issue. There is a difference between behaving inappropriately and committing a crime. The former isn’t a crime, but your employer could potentially fire you if they don’t want to put up with your crap.

2) I don’t buy this as some sort of scheme born out of jealousy or politics. Vic hasn’t had many major roles for a while, and if Sabat really had that much power over him, what does he have to be jealous of? Most of the VAs at Funimation were as talented as him, if not more so. I ask, how was this supposed to help them? They wouldn’t have benefitted financially, Vics fans weren’t going to flock to them as a substitute, so what would the point be? If this was a scheme to get rid of him, the only thing I can imagine is that Vic was actually doing the things he is being accused of. Some have claimed they got rid of him because he was a Trump supporter. Given that Funi’s Headquarters is in Texas, I’m sure he wasn’t the only one working there, plus there are far more influential people they could have attacked. Overall, it seems that Vic’s behavior was an open secret, and once they came out to the mass public, Funimation felt they had to cut ties with him.
And I know it hurts some people for me to say this, but Vic and everyone in the English anime VA industry is a D-list actor at best. There really isn’t much to be jealous of with these guys.

3) If you donated to Vic’s legal fund, I hate to tell you this: You got scammed. I was suspicious immediately when that Reiketa guy and Ty Beard made that GoFund me page; I know lawyers are an expensive ordeal, but I would think an attorney and his client could work something out if money was an issue, and I personally think that Vic could have afforded this on his own.
But I never would have suspected the case would have went THIS bad. I read about what happened, and Ty Beard made Lionel Hutz seem competent by comparison. More specifically, the whole thing with the affidavits. He forged Vic’s signature, didn’t get it notarized (yes, you NEED a notary to see you make the signature). Plus, it seems that the affidavit he got from Sabat was fraudulent, as Sabat wasn’t present, and I heard the one lady who supposedly corroborated what Sabat was accused of had her account hacked and someone else posted it. Plus, based on what I’ve read about him, I’m not considering Chuck Huber to be a trustworthy source either. So right now, I’m wondering why Ty isn’t in some serious legal trouble right now. Apparently the GoFundMe page (which Vic denied knowing about during his depot, despite thanking his fans who donated) is even refunding the money.
In the case of Nick, this was a grift for him: he got this case started just so he could get views and profit off this debacle himself.

4)ISWV needs to take a chill pill. You got your lawsuit going, now be mature about the outcome, whatever it’s going to be. You were never interested in justice, you just wanted some validation that Vic was innocent. I’m sorry, this isn’t American Idol, where the group that screams the loudest gets what they want. It’s the attorneys’ job to prove their case, and if they don’t do a good job, it’s not the fault of the jury or the judge.
Now, I’m not saying that there aren’t bad judges out there, because there are. I don’t know enough about Chup’s history to make a conclusion either way, but I’d imagine he knew Texas law well enough to inform his decisions. Chances are he’s never heard of Vic, and I doubt he’s watched any anime to have some fanboy opinion. I admit I’m no lawyer, but I imagine many lawyers have to go through some prep in assuming judges would be very strict with them.
On top of that, other lawyers outside of the case have been saying for a while now that a defamation was going to be very hard for Vic to win while Nick was saying it would be a slam dunk (apparently not). And what does ISWV do? Claim they are not real lawyers who know nothing. I think you should be at least a little bit suspicious when people outside the case are vehemently claiming the odds are stacked against Vic.
And what good do you think threatening others with guns is going to do for your cause? Especially the judge in this case? It just confirms my point earlier.

6) The lawsuit has only made things WORSE for Vic. Now more mainstream media outlets know about his allegations and now the worst of the trolls are associated with him by default. The sad thing is, if Vic just went away and kept quiet for a bit, he could have made a comeback with some other company. Just enacting the lawsuit alone is going to guarantee no other major company is going to hire him to avoid being sued themselves. If anything it seems Vic’s worst enemies are his own fans.

7) The behavior of the other VAs are not relevant.
Yes, maybe you’ve shown that Schemmel and Sabat and several others are not people I want to hang out with. The difference between them and Mignoga are that they seem to conduct themselves appropriately at conventions and with fans. If they’re kitten people, at least they’re smart enough to do their kitten behind closed doors where it only affects them. Vic didn’t; he’s apparently pissed off enough people outside of work to warrant his scrutiny

If Naruto has already been sealed (oh, like any of you care!), it seems that promise of 30 volumes or so got cut short. I guess we could have a time skip now to get to that point in the first chapter, though it makes me wonder where they are going to take Boruto from there if they’re still on course for those volumes.

As for the anime...I can tell this is going to be a mess on SP’s track record alone depending on what rules of time travel they’re going to go by: The classic rules where entering the past WILL change the future (Back to the Future), the rules where time is a circle and history can’t be altered (Gargoyles), or if going back in time only creates branch realities (DBZ, Endgame).

The second one is definitely not an option: In the manga or anime, there are no scenes that even HINT at Naruto met a time traveling Boruto. Neither Kishimoto nor SP would have thought that far ahead.

If they do the first option, well congratulations SP. You have now retconned the ENTIRE lore of Naruto, making everything POINTLESS.

3rd option is probably the best choice for them (they were probably inspired by Avengers, given the timing of this). But if Boruto is going to create a branch reality, what is the point? Are characters from this new reality going to crossover to the main one? Why is Boruto traveling back in time to begin with?

A part of me is suspecting that SP is doing this to have Boruto make Naruto fall in love with Hinata sooner. Again, if they’re going with option #1, this is a huge slap in the face to Naruto, including the parts that benefit NH.
If they’re doing option #3, it feels like they’re using Boruto as a catalyst for some kind of reboot. A reboot that I’ve a feeling is not going to make up for the past.

But knowing them, I think they’re going to pick option #2, claiming this was ALWAYS the past despite nowhere in manga or anime canon to support it.

Obviously, Im asking for a bit more than shouting at your keyboard.

When I read the ending, I was going through a rather difficult time in my life. My first career choice didnt pan out the way I hoped, and I was struggling with finding work. Anyway, I typically let the manga go on ahead for periods of time before I return, so I was a little late to the party, if you can call it that. I restarted from 690, I believe, and essentially blazed on through. The further I went in, the more nervous I became. Sakuras shot to the heart triggered that anxiety for me. I got to the final battle, and while it had its positive aspects, I was extremely underwhelmed by the whole thing. 14 years of a promised battle leads to this!? Finally, the last two chapters. 699 not only did Sakura no favors, but I was extremely frustrated how people just forgave Sasuke and had him live in exile, which was what he was doing to begin with. I was nervous that 700 was going to rush through everything to explain the end. But it didnt. It didnt explain ANYTHING. Narutos Hokage, everyone's married with children, and the cycle begins anew.

I was, for lack of a better word, shell shocked. I could not sleep from midnight to noon. I just couldnt help but wonder what signs did I miss? My usual routines came to a screeching halt that day, I didnt even eat until the next evening, and all I was able to do was walk the dogs. I skipped martial arts that day, knowing I was not going to be able to focus.

For a long while after, I frequently explored different corners of the internet, trying to understand what happened (and most everyone with a brain was as confused as I was). I was also heartbroken at the toxic attitude of the NH fans against the NS fans. It was a problem I always knew was there, but the ending emboldened them to actively seek us out and cyber bully us to validate themselves the true fans of Naruto.
I checked out all sorts of conspiracy theories by other fans regularly, whether it was always a part of Kishimotos beliefs or if his editors forced him into doing what he did, if there was any discrepancy between the manga and anime studio about where the story was headed, almost to an unhealthy level I must confess.

After some time, Ive managed to move on from Naruto for the most part. Ive found joy in other things, both in my personal life and in enjoying the works of others. Im now trying to get my own story off the ground, and use the failures of Naruto to learn what NOT to do.

So, what was your reaction to the ending, and how did you cope afterwards?

I’ve been through several series, franchises and what have you not that may have disappointed me in the long run, but Naruto was just a huge blow in the way I perceived it. The ending was so out of left field that it ruined the journey, and at no point can I relive it with the joy I used to have. I can’t separate the good from the bad because I KNOW where it all is going to lead. The alternate last is helping a bit, but still...

The ending also made me see the flaws of the whole series in a new light, where plot lines were randomly thrown in to grab our attention but never developed upon, mainly how we got so many characters that Kishimoto seems to care about at one moment but drops the next because they weren’t popular enough. Combined with his “confession” as you can call it, about how most of the ideas where his editors’ and not his, made me lose even more respect for him.

Add that in with a toxic fanbase, at least among the English speakers, who go out of their way to demonize those who don’t agree with what Kishimoto did. Not only does it make it hard to have a civil discussion, but now I have to limit myself to this board when discussing Naruto, done more so as a catharsis.

It’s as I said elsewhere, I don’t have a problem with people liking the ending of Naruto and beyond. What I DO have a problem with is these fans telling me that I have to like it.

Nowadays I simply consider myself a fan of Naruto as a concept. I enjoy the jutsus, even the overpowered ones, I love the idea of this fantasy world with ninjas and the potential these characters and the lore could bring. But the execution of it all was a train wreck.

That’s why I’m rebooting it instead of simply ignoring a couple of other chapters like other fan fic writers.

Love triangles to me can be a very difficult thing to pull off, if only because SOMEBODY is going to be unhappy with the conclusion. You can make the ultimate outcome obvious, like in Inuyasha, and others do make it like it could be anybody. The problem with the former is that there’s no suspense to the end, and with the later you can fall into the trap of not being aware when you go too far with one possible pairing.

But in Naruto, we never HAD a love triangle. Yes, Kishimoto baited us with who Sakura would choose, but he did everything in his power to make SasuSaku as toxic as possible. Everyone who wasn’t into the shipping fiasco really, REALLY didn’t want her to end up with Sasuke because he only brought out the worst aspects of her character. Kishimoto in essence only gave her one option: Naruto.

And Hinata was almost a non-factor in all of this. She was basically ignored throughout Part 2 (I think only TenTen may have had it worse in terms of panels/screentime) and when she interacted with Naruto, each time it seemingly had little to no lasting impact on the story, including the hand-holding scene. The moments didn’t impact Naruto in the slightest, and it’s just so odd that The Last’s explanation of those moments made things worse (confusing love of a person with someone’s love of food?).

Also, Kishimoto clearly doesn’t understand what a red herring is. Was Hinata secretly like Kushina the whole time? Not in my view.

I’ve noticed fans try to reconcile this with Kushina’s kidnapping by cloud and paralleling it with Hinata. Problems:

1) Hinata’s DAD rescued her, not her lover
2) She was asleep for the whole ordeal
3) This subplot was related to Neji, not the heroine in question (if you can even call Hinata that)

Fans have also tried to do the reverse, making Minato the Hinata of the last generation. I remember way back when recently after the ending, fans decried our NaruSaku moments as fillers and tried to use the anime-only scene where Minato was watching Kushina from the tree was a NaruHina parallel. I had to point out that was non-canon as well as Kishimoto never drew that scene.

I think some may take issues with my opinions here, but Kishimoto did have two somewhat decent red herrings.

The first was the reveal of Itachi. During the flashback at the Valley of the End, Itachi was the pride and joy of his family and cared for Sasuke. He also laid out later that his parents somewhat had issues with him to the point they became more distant, and just all of a sudden, Itachi turns complete psychopath and murders EVERYONE, but leaves an 8 year old live to test his abilities without any sure way of knowing Sasuke will reach that potential?

Then Obito. The one eyehole in the mask was a clue, as was the hair. Not to mention Madara was so powerful a shinobi that...well, he probably didn’t even need to be one...and yet he’s more of a lurking in the shadows kind of guy?

Granted, the execution can be debated, but I will give him credit for AT LEAST planting some bread crumbs that could lead the way there.

But the love whatevershapeitwas? He completely pulled the rug out from under us.

Seems I have struck a nerve. I don't know if I want to reply because this is going to lead to nowhere, but I will say this. It is NOT just the scenes themselves that are the issues, it is the context of the scenes compared to the motives of the people making them. Symbols can mean anything depending on context, but they can change. I am not sure how political I want to go here, but I can think of a few symbols that originally oppression and hatred, but are now used to symbol anarchy for freedom. That is history.
Disney and Marvel are EXTREMELY SJW. Not only do they not hide, but they downright admit it. Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy to Star Wars and Kevin Feige to MCU and on and on. It is not a secret and I can pull obvious time where they purposely called fans misogynist for not liking Captain Marvel.
You are also confusing Feminist from femnazi and I think this is a huge difference. Femnazis' berate men non-stop to make them feel better. Feminist point out the sexism that take place, but pushing for equality. Wonder Woman would be a feminist. Yes, she had a scene where she called a secretary a type of slave, but you are missing the context of the scene where it takes places in WWII and the culture was different. It is a different culture meaning she didnt understand one from the other. She didn't just go in there and started spouting how bad men are.
I am a feminist, but I am not a femnazi. I believe in equality of the sexes and if you are not a feminist then you are sexist. That's not that hard to understand, but you automatically assume that "feminism" means "female superiority." That's not it at all. You are confusing the two.
So why is Captain Marvel NOT sexist, but Wonder Woman is? We are talking about the live action movies after all.
 

You are looking at context, but you are missing the context I said above. Why was the scene created in the first place? Sure, it became a deleted scene later on, but why was in thought of to be put in? Why did you need a guy to be that creepy and stereotypical when MOST MEN are not like this? Why even created it in the first place? Considering that Marvel and Disney are run by open SJWs who admit to wanting female superiority...the context created for the scene is clear.
Why not make another woman come up and judge her? Maybe call her a slut or something. I go out around my town every day and I NEVER see this kind of behavior occur. Not once. Yet, Hollywood keeps making these scenes like they happen every time a girl walks two steps. No. That is completely stereotypical.
This movie, portraying men like that, is sexist towards men. I am offended as a man for how creepy they portrayed this scene on both ends. It is not me whining about "look at how that huge kitten beat that poor innocent man." No. The entire scene is one sexist portrayal of men and women interaction. This doesn't happen as often as these movies want to portray.
Bonus question: Name a Marvel movie where the MALE superhero berates a female and nearly kills her after she tries to say something like "you know, you would look so much better if you wore tighter shirts" and have him steal her car or something. I'll wait.
 

Okay, this is the biggest joke of the whole thread. No, Captain Marvel is not Sakura. This is not even in the same ballpark. No, none has claimed that Captain Marvel alone is going to ruin the MCU. It's just one part of a whole issue that is growing. No, I am not ignoring the flaws of the other characters. Plus, Brie Larson is not helping by constantly berating white men and insulting them. It is not helping when every single time she goes for an interview the other cast hate her guts and she acts likes she alone can do anything. "Yeah, Captain Marvel can totally lift Thor's hammer, beat Superman, and one shot Thanos without trying." Look this up. She is obviously a SJW misandrist trying to prove something and only comes off as being a real kitten.
Brie Larson is a big girl. She can defend herself. She said these words she has to own up to it.
Did you even read the parts where I had an issues with like Rey being too powerful without formal training in Star Wars and the the reaso why they did that was because Rian Johnson wanted her to be that OP because "We want wahmen to be better than men?" Did you read about the part where I said that Captain Marvel has no excuse for why she was not around for any of the other battles in the MCU that they could have used her help and that the cheap explanation is weaksauce in the grand scheme of things? Thanos and Ego were ruining planets left and right and she did nothing. They were practically destroying the galaxy and she did nothing. Where was she? They have no explanation. Why? Because in reality, Captain Marvel was shoehorned in at the last possible second. THAT is why she is really bad. They forced pushed her in because Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, and any of the other female superheroes were "not good enough." This is exactly what they thought. They wanted a broken OP female superhero who has no emotional connection and it is obvious
Dr. Strange said he have bigger fish to fry to, but even he stopped what he was doing to help the Avengers. Endgame even explained why the Ancient didn't get involved.
I have a whole list of issue with the MCU, but this is not the place to put them. You are taking one thing and making it seems like a majority.
 

The worst movie I have ever seen? The Room. The worst MCU movie I have ever seen? It is a tie between Captain Marvel, Thor Dark World, and Iron Man 3. They may have some good scenes, but overall the plot was severely lacking. Second to last worst? Age of Ultron.
I gave you legit reasons why Captain Marvel is horrible. I have also talked about this extensive motives of Marvel behind the scenes and the issues with pushing more agendas than story telling.
Again, the only thing they push for Thor Love and Thunder is Lady Thor (who Marvel can't stand us saying even though it is cultural appropriation at its finest) and a lesbian Valkyrie being the first gay superhero...even though she really isn't and it was Nova who was the first openly gay superhero in Marvel. It is the same reason why everyone praises Black Panther because "It is the first black superhero" when really the movie itself was mediore at best and was basically a rehash of Iron Man mixed with The Lion King. Not bad, but mediocre. It was grand standed for being a black superhero and not because it was a good movie. That is pathetic.
But hey, cultural appropriation is par for Disney now....just look at the black Little Mermaid. Apparently Ginger is the new black. I rather have something more original. Maybe make actual meangingful characters instead of forcing diversity into something that makes no sense to do so.
Of course, these same people are going after Mulan because something about the main heroine supporting the Chinese police?  I don't really care, but it makes me question the validity of seriousness when people chime in with "culture acceptance" non-stop only to toss out other cultures because they don't have the same agenda mindset.
I am more of a freedom of choice and freedom of speech guy. You can say or do whatever you want, but don't affect other people's lives.
 

Hahahahaahahahahahah. Ahhh....good one.
Magic Mirror on the wall. Who has never been on twitter at all?
But I will remember this. Next time I see Jamie Marchi wanting to cut off another innocent man's balls...I'll remember that I am just making it up.
Next time I see someone complain about False Rape accusations existing in an anime saying how they are not real and how this is sexist against women...I'll remind myself that I am just imagining it.
And of course, next time I see a woman act like a victim because she claims that ten years ago someone hugged her inappropriately.and all of sudden NOW she feels uncomfortable even though back then she was giddy as a school girl...I'll remember that it is conservative brainwashing.
I wonder what you would say to a women who claims rape when no such rape occurred?
Discussion....terminated.

Oy Vei, where do I begin?
First off, I didn’t address every point you made because they were YOUR OPINIONS, and I don’t have enough time in the day to rebute ones that are not worth my time. I’m just addressing the ones as not true, like CM complaining about the patriarchy. Again, WHERE DID THIS HAPPEN? I SAW THE MOVIE, she did not say “MEN SUX” ONCE, and you still haven’t provided me with any definitive examples. “All Of It” doesn’t cut it. And that deleted scene was filmed because that’s how movies work. They write a script, they film it, and during post-production they cut some scenes either for time, because the scene didn’t fit the narrative, or...reasons. Often times filmmakers don’t see some of the flaws in their original script, and edit certain scenes out or reshoot new ones entirely. I guess in the case of the one scene we’re talking about, they just felt it was unnecessary for her to burn the man’s hand because battle of the sexes wasn’t the theme of the movie, and she was going to take it anyway so why waste 2 minutes?
Brie Larson hates white men? Interesting...she hates white men, yet she signed onto a project that was co-directed by a white man, produced by a white man, and approved by a board of directors at Disney that are most likely...mostly white. Yeah, sorry, but I’m not buying it. Also, unless one of the cast members comes out, they don’t have a problem with her. Don Cheadle debunked that already. And it was Chris Evans who wanted her to be Captain Marvel in the first place. If Disney studios is really as SJW as you claim, then it sounds like she fits right in and they don’t have a problem with her.
And I think the Sakura comparison fits. Does she have people who blow up her bad points like Sakura? YES. Do said people also ignore her good points? Seems that way to me. Has the dislike turned into such an unhealthy obsession? Kitten yes, it has!
And SPEAKING OF DISNEY BEING SJW, need I remind you Marvel exec Peter Pearlmutter is a proud Trump supporter and is the reason we didn’t get a Black Widow movie sooner, because “girls don’t buy toys?” Or how about Robert Downey Jr being an open Republican? The co-writer of Dr Strange, Robert C Cargil, also an open Republican, expressing how thrilled he was working with Marvel Studios and even saying that “The SJWs were going to hate what we did with the Ancient One no matter what?” Granted, those two are more moderate Republicans, but I’d assume this SJW Dystopia you speak of wouldn’t allow them in. Let’s also not forget that Chris Pratt joined a rather controversial church after his divorce. He’s still returning as Star Lord to my knowledge.
Also, I got the point of that Wonder Woman scene. A bunch of others probably did not. But I still remember back when Geoff Johns was promoting what they THOUGHT was going to be the DCEU with Kevin Smith, so many were triggered when he described Wonder Woman as a “feminist icon.”
Just do a YouTube search on feminism. I promise you almost all of them will be about how bad/ridiculous a feminist opinion is. And most of those people think being a feminist and being a feminazi are one and the same thing.
You don’t see men doing the opposite (or same, depending on your point of view) to women as you see some prominent feminists do because WE’RE DIFFERENT. Yes, this statement seems to contradict the whole equality thing, but it’s true. We grow differently, we tend to think different, and we go through different experiences. Sexual advances are a much more dangerous thing for women. If they say no, and the guy tries to force himself on her, the woman’s going to have a bit of a challenge forcing him off. If a woman tries to force herself on one of us, the average guy is usually able to at least hold her at bay and run away. In the US, one in five women will be raped in their lifetimes. Only one in 71 men will be raped (whether that’s by other women or men these stats don’t say). With numbers like those, I don’t blame women for being on the edge if a guy tries to get too friendly with her when she doesn’t want it. Not to mention those awful gang rapes in India and how some girls in the Middle East are raped so their rapist can marry them. Neither of us have it perfect, we’re all going to run into an awful person from the opposite sex and both of us have our own privileges and disadvantages...but women really seem to have it against them, even in this day and age.
This whole explosion of rape/assault accusation isn’t the result of a trend, it’s the result of others getting away with something for too long. The reason why most of these victims wait so long to come forward is attitudes like these where they are accused of being liars or downplay the situation. Now, do I think we should believe the accusers by default? No. Do I think we should go to social media and lynch the accused? No. Do women lie and abuse the whole MeToo thing? Yes, some do. Should we have a fair investigation into each claim? Absolutely. But the only way we’re going to get justice for both men and women is if we treat each case accordingly, and don’t whine about it if the results are not in your favor. Actual investigations are how many of the false accusations get outed, so why fight them?
On one last thing about the SJW thing...just admit you have a problem with everyone being liberal. Because that’s what you really mean. Basically anything remotely left of center is SJW nowadays. Be like that if you want, but don’t hide behind these perjoratives, just be like Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity and don’t pretend you’re making any distinction within the group of people you’re kittening on.
I honestly don’t know if I’ll get a response for this, but if you want to discuss further, feel free to PM me. Or don’t. It’s your call.

Seems like everyone has been taking a break from this. Well, Toneri appeared

https://www.devianta...-p-11-806714947

 

I especially love Hinata’s sinister look here, I’m hoping this is the real deal.

As Jak said, the very people who want "strong female characters" are the same people that keep saying that women are weak pathetic and the only way women can be strong is if men are brought down a peg and shown to be evil A-holes that are extremely sexist in every way and are stereotypical that you wonder if these people ever met a real male in the street before.
Wonder Woman is the good example of a women done right. She is strong and can do thing on her own, but never once put down the men in her group because "man are bad, wahmen forever" ideologies that are plaguing the industry. Steve Trevor is still commended for his valor despite not having the same powers and Diana respects him and his sacrifice. This is unlike Captain Marvel which all she seems to want to talk about is smashing the patriarchy, but doesn't really do anything. She is super powerful, but dos nothing really useful with it while making excuses. /s

Okay, WHERE does Captain Marvel even mention something about patriarchy? All that was even close to that was her friend mentioning how women weren’t allowed to fly in the Air Force until a couple years prior to the movie, and it was never brought up again. She didn’t look down on Nick Fury because he was a man, she looked down on him BECAUSE HE WAS HUMAN and she thought she wasn’t. If we’re going to continue the fad of attacking Carol, let’s at least be accurate.
Wonder Woman was far, FAR more feminist than CM. She came from an island of nothing BUT women, she thought being a secretary was the same as being a slave, the war room back in London were mad at Steve for bringing her inside, and yes, a lot of that had to do with the time period it took place. Patty Jenkins herself said the movie was feminist, and Gal Gadot herself said “If you’re not a feminist, you’re a sexist.”, and no one on the internet seems to care she said that.
Oh, and let’s not forget the Wonder Woman animated movie where they made her a total misandrist. God, that was cringe.

Take a look at this:

Perfect role model. /s

 
No one finds what the dude there is doing as creepy? She gave him the “Kitten off” look before, and he got in her space. If anything he’s lucky he only got off with a slight burn. Any dude did that to one of my female friends, I would have said “You need to back off.”, and if I wasn’t there, they would tased him where the sun don’t shine. Plus: CONTEXT! Carol was a Kree soldier at this point in the movie, of course she wouldn’t give a damn about him.
It’s not like any of the other superheroes in film were perfect role models. Like the time Supes stole those clothes in MoS. Or when Tony blasted random objects in his suit in a room full of people while drunk. Or when Steve got Stan Lee fired. Or when Thor wanted to throw down with the Frost Giants because they ruined his coronation. Or Scott having been a thief. Or Tony creating Ultron out of paranoia. Or Wanda and Pietro joining Ultron and also being responsible for the deaths of hundreds when they manipulated Hulk. Or Hulk being Hulk. Or when Batman was branding people so they would be killed in prison. Or when Aquaman told the bartender to charge the man he just rescued for his drink. Or Shazam being a brat for most of the movie and pussies out the first challenge he gets. I could go on.

Really, Captain Marvel is the Sakura of the MCU. People hear the name, and they jump on it, thinking she alone is somehow going to ruin the MCU, saying the movie would flop when it exceeded expectations, claiming she was barely in Endgame because of the reception of the movie when in fact it was because Larson shot in Endgame first BEFORE she started filming her own movie, thinking they’re not doing a sequel when her movie literally came out this year so of course it’s not ready, jumping on Brie for lying about doing her own stunts without realizing SHE WAS JOKING. And somehow the other characters/actors get a pass for their flaws. Kind of like how the bashers find every reason to hate Sakura they can pull out of their hole but ignore the other flaws of the Naruto characters.
And you know who’s more sick of this than me? The other people who genuinely didn’t like Captain Marvel for legitimate reasons, but are not into this culture war kitten, are willing to go about their lives but keep getting lumped in with these incels. Yeah, I liked the movie, but I didn’t think it was GREAT. If CM is honestly the worst movie you have ever seen, then I promise you have never actually seen a bad movie in your life. Try watching Meet the Spartans. Just don’t make a drinking game out of it.

 

I agreed James still waiting game for them to ruin wonder woman like that you know they would. I'm worried about Tifa in ff7 remake cause of this sjw kitten.

Okay, I doubt Japan gives a kitten about our politics, let alone some ubiquitous fringe group. What’s going on with Tifa, because I swear there was some sort of controversy a couple years ago about her having KK breasts and it just kind of sizzled out. There’s a saying out on the internet: Anti-SJWs are the new SJWs.
Really, this SJW paranoia has gotten ridiculous. The only reason you’re seeing this nonsense is because you’re convinced it exists and we get a case of believing is seeing. These media don’t care about “woke” points, they care about money, and if they think getting that money means appealing to women, PoC or LBGT people, of course they’re going to do that. Given how big FF7 has been, I honestly don’t see the need for them to do that beyond a few Tifa commercials maybe.
So just calm down. Whatever is going to go wrong with FFVII 2 is going to be because of bad marketing, bad programming and bad writing. Don’t blame it on some group of people that don’t exist, and if they do, I doubt they even play games so I doubt Sony is going to reach out to them exclusively.

I think part of it may be Orihimes character development.
 
In many ways Hinata is a blank slate. Shes defined by one singular characteristic; namely her devotion to Naruto.
 
but beyond that like I said blank slate. She has no other development or plot points. take her out of the manga and replace her with generic hyuga girl #2 and you would literal see the story of Naruto not skip a beat
 
so because shes that blank slate, the people that worship her are able to transplant their own feelings and desires onto her character because theres so much room for interpretation. In many ways shes an incels dream.

  
I still don’t get how that makes her appealing. There’s NOTHING there, and she’s into Naruto, not them. We all have our biases on how certain characters are to us, but blank slates are no fun. You have to do all the work the author was supposed to.

I think this is probably the only thing that comes close to the real answer. She is such a blank slate that people love self-inserting her "obsessive-ness" into her and using that to fulfill their own fantasies. Case and point, look at the abridged series of Naruto and how MasakoX made HInata say "Sorry, Naruto, but I am going out with MasakoX"
We here can definitly say why we like Sakura, but we also admit she has issues that should have been fixed. In fact, we are insulted that she was reduced down to pairing fodder because we saw her as so much more. (Many Pro-enders say that if you are a true fan of Sakura, then you want her to be Sasuke because that is what she wanted. I make the argument for being a fan for Naruto means you want him to be with Sakura, but then they once again brush that off which means, by their own logic, I have proven they are not NH fans because there is no "Naruto" they worship. They only care about the "H" in NH.)
These Hinata fans seems to insert facts they want rather than use the facts that are there.
 
 


Yeah, but these people want to believe Hinata is their love interest. That Hinata loves them and they can make her anyway they want.
Maybe behind the shy exterior she is a sex goddess in their eyes. Behind the shy "N-N-Naruto-kun" she wants a gangbang so hard with tons of Naruto clones and just be this.....well, you can fill in the rest. That's what they want. It is not the reality, but the fantasy they crave. Dare I say, we sometimes want that too, but we are more conservative about it. We don't say "this is the canon because we want it to be." We say "this is the canon because that is how it happened."

I just wish they would come out and admit that they only like Hinata for her sex appeal (which in my opinion, she never had any).

It really feels like these so-called fans can not distinguish between fantasy and reality. I don’t know whether it is because most of these outspoken fans are teenagers still growing up, or if these are adults with serious problems. Probably a bit of both.

Honestly, it really feels like a no-win situation these days when it comes to female characters. A female character isn’t a powerhouse, people want her written off without any chance of improving. A female is strong, suddenly she is a Mary Sue and it’s part of some feminist agenda. Female is rather perfect in some way, people want her to go through some struggle or reveal skeletons in her closet. Other female has real-life character flaws, suddenly she’s a horrible person who deserves to be murdered and raped, in that order. Female looks rather plain or even athletic, people will poke fun at the flat-chested kitten. Female character is curvy, she’s called a slut.

Can’t there be some sort of middle ground with all of these traits?

Been away for a while.

I’ve been watching some old reviews on Godzilla and Gamera (AlextheHunted and Brandon Tenold) and I noticed some interesting things.

For Godzilla, he started out as symbolism for nuclear destruction, but became more kid friendly as time went on. They put in Minilla because they thought he would attract children. Then they made Godzilla’s Revenge a few years afterwards, universally slammed as the worst Godzilla movie ever made. It was composed mostly of stock footage (Godzilla probably has two minutes of new footage total), the plot centered around a little boy who DREAMED about being on Monster Island with Minilla...as you can imagine, not very appealing. And the craziest thing was the director was the same guy who directed the original Godzilla!
Similar shinnanegans would continue well into the seventies. Godzilla vs Hedora was an environmental message-type movie that appealed to kids, and the studio was so furious with the director that they accused him of ruining Godzilla forever.
Toho also held a contest for kids to create their own superhero, which resulted in Jet Jaguar, but Toho wasn’t convinced he could carry his own movie, so they put him in a Godzilla movie.

Gamera had a lot of similar production problems as well, exacerbated by the trends towards child friendly monsters. Two of the original movies had plots revolving around the Osaka Expo and Seaworld, as those two financed those movies. The last of those original movies, Gamera Super Monster, was a last ditch attempt to save the series, and much like GR, relied heavily on stock footage and relied on several plot gimmicks to keep people interested (in this case, have three alien women turn into superheroes, but they were almost as useless as Hinata).

I feel like something similar had happened with Naruto and Boruto is the result. As time went on, Naruto struggled to stay relevant, and assuming Kishimoto has been lying about planning NH, SJ sought to appeal to the NH fans given how loud they were, and here we are now.

While SP to my knowledge doesn’t rely too much on stock footage, I feel the production value on the Naruto series as a whole was going downhill and seemed to have been getting really lazy as of late with their character designs. I also feel the technology in Boruto is just a gimmick to get people to read it; it clearly wasn’t planned in the original Naruto and there’s no explanation for how they got this technology in such a short amount of time.

And while I don’t think SJ was suffering significantly financial wise (with so many series, I think most of them should have kept its head above water), I feel like they were really desperate to make lightning strike twice instead of moving on to some other series. So far, it seems MHA and Black Clover are the new kings.

DBZ Ripoff!!!! YAAAAY!!!!!!!

At least in DragonBall Goku made a full recovery.

 

I also remember in the original Funi dub some of the characters suggested taking the medicine as well as a preventative, so kudos to the writers on that one. 

I've been out of the loop for a bit due to some hectic weeks, mainly a heatwave and dealing with a BS insurance agency.

 

So, we're going to weaken Naruto by exposing him to a virus? Hmm...

 

Okay, a couple of questions. Most importantly:

HOW DID HE OBTAIN THE VIRUS?

If he caught it like we do the common cold, how come no one else is getting infected with this deadly disease?

Did he get near some animals he shouldn't have?

Or perhaps he (gasps) got it from a random night in the RED LIGHT DISTRICT?

 

I know most of these writers aren't doctors, but this is basic biology if you made it through High School (or in Japan, maybe even 6th grade). Viruses spread through the air or direct contact, or exchanging fluids. No one just magically gets infected and not pass it on to others (or be considered a risk to pass it on to others)

 

This reminds me of the Rememberance Kenshin OVA where Kenshin and Kaoru got sick. Initially, fans thought Kenshin contracted leprosy, or that his body began to break down on its own (though that wouldn't explain how Kaoru contracted it). And I recently heard the writers admit there was no medical explanation for his sickness  That's just really bad writing, plain and simple.

 

But if this is to justify Naruto being killed by Nail, it's suspicious this isn't mentioned in the manga, Which means neither party is communicating, and I'm wondering if we'll ever even SEE Nail introduced in the anime. It's been 90% filler.

 

Also:
Why doesn't Kyuubi heal Naruto?

So, Kyuubi could counteract a fatal poison, heal most wounds so long as all limbs are attached, but can't fight this off? If he can't, how can other people be okay?

 

Does Sakura really need to bring Sasuke along?
Well, of course not, but the studio will force it. 

 

So yeah. Really bad plot device. Then again, SP, this doesn't surprise me. You've done several others without consequence, why stop now?

I think this is the fastest toaki updated, hope he can keep it up, cause I'm just as giddy as the rest of you guys right now.

I think for me it really jumped the shark by the time the real Madara got in on the fight. If he simply remained an Edo Tensei, I could have forgiven it somewhat as a boss Naruto and co had to defeat before getting to Obito (and by extension, Sasuke). But as James said, he kept breaking the rules and powering up. I wouldn't have minded most if it if he had at least one or two limits, but Kishi just wouldn't give him any that I actually question how Black Zetsu could get Kaguya to possess him. What, he didn't have a jutsu for that too?

 

It got so ridiculous, that Madara made me one of the few people to ACTUALLY LIKE KAGUYA, at least in concept. I just got so sick of the Uchiha BS I was begging for a new villain. I would have even taken the Nes Quick Bunny.

 

The Uchiha characters did create a lot of problems for the series, but Madara was by far the worst. Too OP that Kishi had to asspull him out of the fight to give the protagonists a chance.

Regarding the Screen Rant Article:

10) If anything, Naruto was overloaded with characters. To his credit, Kishimoto was able to focus on most of the characters that would serve the story, but unfortunately he threw too many under the bus that deserved more spotlight (SAKURA) and favored too many others (SASUKE). And all development at the end was destroyed.

9) Shippuden unfortunately at times was very slow that I stopped watching it. The manga was decently paced, but in the end the payoff wasn't worth it

8) On this one I'll agree. Again, in retrospect, the payoff really wasn't worth it, but the suspense and expectations kept me coming back. Boruto is just ridiculously predictable

7) Eh, it had the potential. The early ones in part one had a lot of strategy and misdirection in addition to all the martial arts and elemental attacks. Garaa vs Lee is definately the highlight, with two styles that have nothing in common going head to head.

In the end, though, the series threw the ninja part out and basically became another DBZ.

As far as action goes, Cowboy Beebop, Avatar and Korra, DragonBall, Yu Yu Hakusho and many Gundam series have action that surpass Naruto's by a longshot.

6) No. Every villain had some sort of sob story to justify their path, and those who survived were forgiven like it was no big deal. Going back to HDI's point, I remember hearing about a Klansman that was charged for murdering someone (I can't remember the victim's ethnicity exactly). He apologized in court, and the victim's mother did say she forgave him. Still, she didn't request the judge and jury to acquit him, and he was sentenced accordingly nonetheless. 

But I will agree the premise of the original Naruto villains was pretty intimidating, except when Kishi abused the Sharingan. 

5) In hindsight, Naruto's goal was as straight forward as the other two characters mentioned in the article. He just wanted to be Hokage, and even after learning of all the horrors of the Shinobi system, he just rolled with it. Yeah, he promised peace, but was it a JUST peace? If he had aspired to fix the world and have the Hokage be the backdrop.

4) In Naruto's case, it certainly made him more compelling. With Boruto, it just comes off as Gary-Stu to the max

3) I will agree on this one. I wouldn't call Naruto "hard-core", but it definitely had a lot of dark moments. So far, the Boruto anime feels as dark as a random episode of Pokemon

2) To be fair, a lot of Naruto's power-ups seemed to be plot-convenient. But at least he didn't start out with everything.

1) That certainly was his defining trait in the beginning. With Boruto, it feels like there is not point, and thus, no suspense

 

I think I agree with this list more than most other people here, but I'd like to point out that it doesn't mean they make it worth the ending. The ending really just trashed on everything where the series' best qualities don't feel worth defending. 

 

 

Hey... this is off topic but it's been a rough week for me. My dad died in a car crash and... well I still can't believe it happened and I will never get over it but... I'll pull through. I'm still gonna be the same person I was before because that's what he would've wanted and I just wanna thank you guys for being my friends even though we never physically met. God bless you all.

I'm sorry I'm late to this, and you have my condolences. I lost my father a long time ago too

 

 

See, I disagree here. Subverting expectations is like deconstruction, it has to have a purpose, otherwise it's just destruction. When you properly deconstruct a trope, you don't just tear it apart. Instead, you leave something else in it's place. Likewise, subverting expectations is going against what the audience believes will happen due to their exposure to various tropes and cliches. When handled properly, it can ask them why they thought things would turn out like that and serves to reinforce themes,settings, morals, or other ways to tell the audience what type of story it is. Your still giving the audience something, rather than simply taking things away.

 

But like deconstruction, now it's not being used properly. It's used to justify nonsensical writing, just like deconstruction was used to defend the work of edgelords. Writers these days just feel too egotisical, to in love with the idea of being an auteur that they forget you get auteur-status after firmly establishing yourself first. And you're still required to tell good stories that can stand on their own, like The Witcher novels or ASoIaF.

 

As was said before, there is a difference between making twists that work and twists for the lulz. Subverting expectations is a good tool for writing, but it has to have a purpose. It could lead to the big picture otherwise consistent with your story, show why this plot device is a bad one, etc. 

 

Endgame was another example of subverting expectations properly (I'd say spoilers, but you really have been living under a rock if you haven't seen it yet, so consider this your own damn fault).

In the first 10 minutes, Thanos is killed. No one expects this, but it shows even in death he won

In addition, the Infinity Stones were destroyed. The things that could fix the disaster are gone, and they come up with time travel out of the blue to get them back, while establishing some clear ground rules on it.

Many expected it to be an action-packed movie, but instead it was a large set-up to fixing the world. Something far more heroic than blowing up bad guys

Thor got depressed and fat. This could be interpreted as something made for the lulz, but it made sense: Thor could have killed Thanos instantly in IW, and because he didn't, the snap was his fault (and Starlord's). He may have found Sanctuary for his people, but where could he go from there? Some interpreted it as a big middle finger to him, but for me it just shows out of all the survivors he suffered the worst, having a lot guilt to bear. Sure, it was very unexpected. But it made sense it played out that way.

Hawkeye's change was unexpected, but WELCOME. He was justified in feeling the way he did, and turning into Ronin helped make him cooler.

Stark botches getting the Space Stone because of Hulk. But instead of giving up, he goes further back in time and finds a way to get back.

Thanos comes back via the past, and now instead of eliminating half of all life, he's going to eliminate it all and replace the universe with essentially his entire army. And on top of that, he points out the Avengers are responsible for his return.

Instead of him using the stones to fight, it's a battle of Capture the Flag to get the gauntlet

We all knew Iron Man was going to die, but instead of going Death of Superman or sacrificing himself as a human shield, he took the stones to kill Thanos (and ironically fulfill Thanos' original goal, killing HIS HALF of the universe)

Steve getting his happy ending with Peggy may have been fanservice, but it was well-deserved fanservice.

The difference between this and Naruto was that the former was telling the story it had promised, even with all its twists and turns. Naruto abandoned it's story FOR the twists

 

Question. Do you guys remember why the OVA that we all love was made? The one where we see Naruto on the ground and Sakura holding him as he dies because of the aftermath of his fight with Sasuke and then at the end we see that Naruto lived and Sakura crying.

Why was that made? I remember reading that it was made to inspire hope for one of the disasters that happened in Japan at that time, but I can't recall correctly and I'm not sure if that was even the case.

For the Tsunami they made an alternate animation ED with Freedom...with Sakura walking by her lonesome until she encounters Naruto, who she smiles too. The OVA was a promotional thing.

However, in the case of both, it begs the question: why were they made with that if they knew NH/SS was endgame? They could have done anything for ED 12, Assuming they knew the end, they could have just did a whole animation with all the characters helping out others, but they chose to focus on Sakura being cheered up by Naruto. The OVA could have been 100% Naruto vs Sasuke, but they began and ended with NaruSaku (and even hinted at a child with the baby cry).

 

They also had the ending that seemed to focus on the Naruto girls, with Sakura reaching out into the sky, and Naruto slowly appears between her hands, as if she's caressing him.

 

More than anything, it bothers me that the anime and other media were in someway promoting NS and they claim Kishi told them how it was going to end. It's like they were compelled to take his red herring one step further.

the sony investigation was already leaked, you may want to look into the videos on that, all 3 of the incidents can't even be considered good evidence, 1 was a consentual kiss, and 2nd one, the biggest one out of the 3, was the incident where monica had a bag of jellybeans at a con and vic wanted one so she autographed it and tossed it to him and he ate it, eating poison, then he made a joke saying he ate monica, which he stated was not meant as a sex joke. the contents of these and everything in the investigations is in the leaked court documents, both the monica response documents and the original lawsuit documents, all of which are uploaded online with people covering it.

https://thedaoofdrag...-funimation.pdf

also for others not in the know on the situation, this will catch you up:

https://kiwifarms.ne...icksback.53670/

Kclaws, I think you should read up on the doc and the thread I just linked, you're uninformed on alot of info, and I mean alot, and keep bringing up the sony investigation when james and I have told you it was already leaked in the court doc, the contents of the  investigation was even in the response doc in the video. literally it can't even be called a real investigation, the biggest thing is the jellybean thing, and this is the so called sony investigation.

Excuse me, how am I uninformed by trying to look at reliable sources instead of youtube videos from a bunch of angry incels? 

The first form is just the legal proceedings: it hasn't PROVEN anything as of yet, and I heard it was even filed incorrectly the first time.

I'm more than a little bit skeptical of Kiwifarms: it has a reputation on par with 4chan and a long history of doxxing people, with New York Magazine calling it the "Web's Biggest Stalker Community". Plus, the site had 2 mass shooters as members. I won't go as far to say that they were directly responsible for those things, but that's not a coincidence that at least 2 individuals predisposed to that sort of thing were part of them. So yeah, no thank you on Kiwifarms. Try to find me a forum that at least TRIES to make sure their members are not complete creeps.

 

The articles from Dao of Dragonball to me are the best ones to get a clue about what's going on, because everyone else is so high up on their emotions both for and against Vic while those remain neutral and just give out the facts as we know them. 

And too many people are not using common sense. Whether Vic did these things or not, in the end Funimation fired him specifically to save their own hide. Even assuming they're a stereotypical greedy company, I'd like to think they wouldn't do this unless they had SOME reason to believe the veracity of Vic's accusations. Either there was some truth to these claims, or they just really didn't like Vic and used this as an excuse to fire him. Also, why is only VIc the one getting landed with these rumors for years? Again, Vic isn't even the most famous voice actor in the west. I haven't heard bad things from too many others, save the one guy who used to voice Issei. So why is Vic singled out?

Sadly, we're not going to know the full truth for years, if ever. I want to give Vic the benefit of the doubt; there's a good chance that he meant no harm but has no concept of boundaries that it just exploded into this (people like that DO exist). But knowing what can go on in the real world and based on my experience, this is a matter I personally wouldn't take lightly.

 

And if it is a case of good intentions going wrong, this should be a lesson to everyone to reevaluate their behavior when certain people complain before it crashes down on you

 

I'm also more than a bit suspicious about Vic's legal team in this case. First off, this Reiketa guy seems to be more of a free speech specialist, so this seems to be out of his expertise. The fact that he had a GoFundMe page for Vic's legal fees instead of negotiating with him upfront just reeks of suspicion. Reiketa ALSO seems to have a history of doxxing people, or something close to that nature, as well as slandering others. Oh, and his FB page apparently has him in blackface. For some reason the forum won't allow me to post it, so just google it and you'll see it for yourself.

 

 

Ignoring the politically incorrect nature of this, this is something you just don't do if you're trying to get into a respected profession like law. I just showed this to my friend today, and called it the worst blackface he had seen in his life. It's like he dunked his head into a septic tank.

 

Another reason to be suspicious of this guy: He seems to be VERY eager to share any new info he gets on the case. Again, law is not my specialty, but I imagined lawyers to be very protective of the findings they are bringing to court (as Nate said). Not to mention he seems to get very defensive on twitter with rather unprofessional language. So, yeah, if I were Vic, I would probably be panicking right about now.

 

Or do the smart thing and fire them before any more damage is done to his image.

 

 

The answer is still the same. They are stuck with having to follow what Kishimoto wrote for them. They can't contradict that without breaking their narrative. Remember this is the story Kishimoto always wanted to happen after Naruto. The end pairing Kishimoto chosen were nH/SS. NS wasn't a romantic pairing. So on and so forth. Its afterwards (after the gaiden for SS, and after the chunin exam for nH) they can try and go about changing it, but they still have to work from their initial position. Which from what I understand is what they are trying to do..they just are failing at it in our eyes, and some of their fans'. 

Honestly, it's not like Kishimoto gave them much to work with. He didn't bother writing the Last and let someone else do it, which it seems didn't turn out so good. He refuses to give SS an explanation, which is odd since I heard that between the two in Japan SS is the more popular. The only new generation antagonists he gives them are more Uchihas and Ootsuki people. Naruto "supposedly" achieved his goal of piece. I feel like he was subtly trying to tell them "Leave this alone while you can".

Honestly, they could have just went on to do their own thing. It's not unprecedented; many adaptations of manga differ from the source material in some way or another. On occasion some series get remade (Astroboy got rebooted in the 80s and 00s) or get alternate universes when the original story just stops (Gundam, Fate)

 

 

 

Oh, Masashi didn't write that. That was someone else. Remember, there was an interview with the writer who admitted he/she didn't do research on the manga and wanted to write about the topic of love for The Last.

It's my understanding he supervised the script, saying he made them change it over a dozen times and felt like a tyrant doing so. 

 

Given what little we know of the timeline, we know for sure the Last was rushed into production and the director probably just didn't have the time to look at the source material (even though he probably wanted to)

 

Is that why a character who had a very mature view and understanding of love at the end of part 1, suddenly turned into Goku for the movie. It’s the worst part of the movie for that reason. One reason Naruto was so likeable was because he was genuinely a nice guy. He put her happiness ahead of his own even at the expense of his own. These were some of his best moments and the last crapped all over it when this change.

Turning him into Goku is a compliment; they made him a sociopath with that rivalry BS and unwittingly put NHs relationship in a rather questionable position.

 

God I hate this stupid trend of writers subverting our expectations. It's been proven so many times that they can't handle it and only ends up destroying the story and making people revolt against it because it's dumb.

Obviously it's done because most stories are predictable and they want to Wow the audience, but they always fail because their great moment of wowing the audience is stupid and it almost always destroys what people loved about the story or characters.

For those who don't know what subverting expectations means, it's just doing something that the audience wasn't expecting.

My favorite show did this and it ended up so badly that the show got cancelled. The people who continue to this don't get it. The audience does want to be subverted in some cases but not always and when they want to be subverted they want to be pleasantly subverted in a way that it aligns with what they were expecting in the first place.

 

That's the idea behind subversion is that you want to give someone what they want and at the same time giving them something they weren't expecting. However what they weren't expecting still has to be in lines with what they want.

I'm noticing a trend of writers being so afraid of being cliche or predictable that they do something unexpected JUST to avoid the cliches. Cliches are more than expectations: they're literally the building blocks to stories. Sure, you can bend established rules of fiction a bit, but you can't break them to the point where it defies the logic of the story. Cliches are not something to be avoided, but to be experimented on. You just have to go "Okay, this has been done before. What can I do to make my take on this trope unique?"

 

Here's a great video comparing The Last Jedi with Infinity War, how one subverted expectations badly and how another did it correctly

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=uiXk6mEM_tU

 

It's like the old saying "stick the landing" I guess endings are hard for writers 

The thing is we as the audience always latch onto these unrealistically good endings and that in turn seems to scare writers into trying too hard to meet or subvert our expectations. They should just stick with what they planned to do. It doesn't matter if we "know" what's going to happen, you make it fun by making it more fun than we expected it to be, even if the narrative aligns with our expectations.

Something of a summary of the suit, and how things could play out:

https://thedaoofdrag...nd-monica-rial/

 

It's most likely that Funimation will try to settle this before this goes to court; justified or not, they're a business, and they don't want to spend more money than they have to. If this happens and Vic still feels vindicated because of it, in their eyes it's still the better alternative.

 

As the article says, it seems like Vic is confident that the victims and his former co-workers can't provide evidence of their claims. But if they can, this could open him up to some more legal trouble.

 

It should be noted that Sony, who is Funi's largest shareholder, conducted an investigation of their own. Whether or not they found sufficient evidence at this point in time is anyone's guess, but it's likely that however they arrived at their conclusion, they told Funimation to fire him.

 

Wrongful termination is something hard to argue in Texas, from what I understand (Nate River is probably more qualified to explain this than me, if he's interested). Current laws seem to allow employers to fire anyone for just about any reason. 

 

As for the defamation, now the burden of proof is on Vic to prove these were lies, and with malicious intent. Having a big twitter following isn't going to cut it in court.

 

While most I've seen discuss this say that this isn't likely going to happen, the case may even be thrown out if having the "victims" come forward would endanger them (swatting, harassment, death threats, etc)

 

As for Vic Mignonga himself, I see stupidity on both sides of this matter.

Because it's the most popular one to take a side on, I'm going to trigger some people by attacking IStandWithVic first (to put simple labels on the two camps respectively). I feel like the "IStandWithVic" crowd can be incredibly tone deaf in some instances. Yes, Vic should not be jailed without a proper trial, and we SHOULD value evidence over heresay. However, these accusations didn't come out all at once, but built upon for YEARS, as far back as 1989 according to some. At this point that's not solely heresay, but that's a clear pattern of something happening. You don't get this kind of rep for simply being a christian; after all, there are plenty of anime fans who are proud christians and conservatives. Vic Mignonga, as far as I know Todd Haberkon (I think) was accused of rape, but pretty much dispelled the rumor when he revealed that he and the "victim" texted after the said event. If this is some weird twitter backlash that sunk Vic's career, I'd imagine it should have affected Haberkon with even worse results. There are other voice actors just as prolific as Vic (Steve Blum and Johnny Young Bosch come to mind)

And then there's the argument that "I met Vic, and he was like this...(insert something positive)". All I'll say is that celebrities of all kinds are often one person on camera/talking with a fan and completely different with someone else. I mean, look at Watsuki. You read his author notes in RK, he seems like a very down to earth guy, even going as far as to write about being concerned about the AIDS epidemic. Then we find out he's a pedophile,and no one sees this coming.

Also, these people seem to not understand how sexual harassment often works. It's not like full-blown rape, but it's often a very quick touch, and a lot of times victims are afraid to come forward, especially with today's toxic internet culture.

I'll also speak from experience on this (and I'm a man, btw). One day at work, I approached a customer and his dog to see if they needed help with anything. I went along with my pitch, it seemed to be going well, and just as he was about to leave, OUT OF NOWHERE, he pinches my nipple and takes off. I was more shell-shocked than anything and couldn't believe it happened to me. After I calmed down, I didn't make a big deal out of it and thought it would just be a crazy story to share with friends.

I think about two weeks later, he shows up again. I didn't recognize him at first (you see a lot of faces in sales), and again patted me on the same spot. I silently kept my distance from him, and saw how he was acting friendly with the female manager there. I asked to speak with her after they were done. I figured I was going to tell her to watch out for this guy, because he's inappropriately touching other people (or at least me). To my shock, she and the other guy are friends, and sighs, saying she's not surprised by his behavior before I even tell her what happened. She tries to be nice, saying she's not going to defend whatever he does. I can imagine how uncomfortable others feel when they realize others know about one's inappropriate behavior and do nothing about it.

 

Back on topic, I also think there's a lot of stupidity with KickVic as well. First, I think the character attacks outside of the sexual allegations are way overblown. He's a homophobe because he refused to sign yaoi fanart? Uh, there are worse things you can do to show you're a homophobe. He made a holocaust joke? Again, bad joke does not mean anti-semitism. At least Mel Gibson literally said "Jews are responsible for all the problems in the world." Eating a jelly bean with Monica's name on it? Really? Look, I understand if you believe the accusations you want to demonize the said person as much as possible, but make it about something that really matters. Don't pick on petty stuff that can be blown off between "could have been handled better" to "yeah, he was a jerk about that". 

As I said before, Rial's and Marchie's tweets were also handled VERY badly. I'm more miffed with Marchie's, since you implied wanting to harm him. Um, threatening the accused with physical violence isn't the right way to go about accusations, plus this doesn't look good on you IF by some off-shot we can definitively prove these are all lies. For Rial, she said she was going to "come forward with my story"...and I haven't heard anything since. Then she does an about face and claims that this is hard for her, as she claims she still thinks of Vic as a friend.

Hypothetically, this is what they should have said:

Marchie: I am very upset about hearing these allegations, and feel this matter should be investigated more fully. Just remember, no matter who you are, touching someone without their permission is NEVER okay

Rial: It really saddens me to say this, as I still think of Vic as a friend, but I feel I have to come out and say I've experienced some of what he's accused of (Insert story of your choice here). We should have all come forward with this before, and if doing so would have saved others from pain, we are all so sorry for not speaking up sooner. It could have saved everyone, including Vic, a lot of trouble.

ANN should have also done their research with the photos they used, but their so-called journalism is as shoddy as always.

 

And ironically, I have ALSO been accused of sexual harassment (I don't think you've heard someone claiming to be on both ends, have you?). Though, I must warn you...the story is so ridiculous that it's probably not what you were hoping for in that regard.

This was in sixth grade, this one kid (another boy) kept accusing me of sexually harassing him. The teachers set up meetings with us and questioned both of us. I vehemently denied them every time of course, while he insisted. Looking back, I don't think the teachers were convinced by him either. He was EXTREMELY neurotic, insulting everyone at random, stuffing apples down his shirt and daring us to touch them, and when he didn't want to leave the class for whatever reason, got on all fours and literally behaved like a jackass. Obviously, NO ONE wanted to get near him if they could, and eventually he left the school (I don't know if his parents pulled him out or if he was expelled altogether). So, yeah. It hasn't haunted me since then; I certainly didn't appreciate it at the time (though I don't think most 12 year olds grasp the seriousness of harassment) but looking back on it now I do laugh.

 

I think what's really frustrating to me about this whole Vic mess is that none of us really know what happened, and none of us are getting good answers and are forced to go with our own guts and biases. On one hand, I'm skeptical with the KV side because they make a lot of other superfluous claims, the two VAs I mentioned have done their side no favors with the way they handled it, and we should be mad at people who had inside knowledge about this if true and didn't speak up sooner.

On the other, I'm not trusting ISWV either. Most of them had a very toxic attitude over the matter, and most of the youtubers covering this I've observed are not very trustworthy sources to begin with. And while they are correct we need firm evidence before we bring someone in Vic's situation to trial, they are also part of the greater problem by dismissing these as lies altogether. Again, this is why women often don't come forward with these things in the first place: people simply choose not to believe them because of lack of "evidence", and if they try, they are often threatened by others

 

If this trial IS taken to court, no matter what happens, some good will come out of it. Both sides will tell their stories, and hopefully it will paint a clearer picture, if not definitively prove one side or the other wrong.