Naruto 615

May I just clarify something? I know you're not really speaking to me directly, but I just thought I comment. (I am not mad or trying to start something)

I am not worried about NH or NS anymore at this point. In fact, that is not what I am worried at all about. I am more worried on the quality of writing that has been shown here today. I am not even going to talk about whether or not Sakura is being a heroine, but rather what it took to give Hinata this moment. The sacrifice of rewinding the development clock on every single character except for Hinata in this chapter.

Kishi says he was going to make Shikamaru his right hand man and so far I haven't seen that. Let alone whether or not who is heroine, Kishi hasn't even made Shikamaru be Naruto's guiding logic like he said he would. The fact that Neji's death wasn't to enforce Naruto's resolve to win the battle, but a trigger for Hinata to be the "guiding light."

Naruto has been told repeatedly about the lesson Hinata just told him. Pein, Itachi, Iruka, himself (waterfall), et cetera and many different ways Naruto has lost hope, regained it and said "I am going to find a way." Why did he lose hope now of all time? Why did he lose that much hope with Neji's death, willing to give into Obito, only to have another repeated example of someone else reminding him that he wasn't the only one fighting? How could Naruto forget that lesson not just once, but several times through out this manga?

I am just...confused. Why are we repeating the same moral lesson for the past several time Naruto has lost hope? He has been told at least 5 times the same moral lesson and it's starting to be a broken record.



My bad. Too tired to think. Fixed



True. I'll we will just wait and see.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 December 2012 - 01:33 PM.

Same here.
But the flashback was after hinatas confession.

OH GOD! I can't even watch a NS video on YouTube without a NH fan in the comment section saying they've won JUST WHY KISHIMOTO? Betrayal Betrayal, betrayed me Kishimoto THIS MANGA SUCKS! (Spoony reference)

I feel you. Same for me. I just watched a NS video on comparing Kushina/Sakura and 6 FRICKIN NaruHinaers have ambushed that video saying stuff like "I almost feel sorry for you, little NS supporter. Your pairing is gone. Kishimoto has already decided who Naruto's gonna be with. And that is the shy, dark, weird girl. " God, the arrogance!! And most importantly, I can't say anything to dispute it. I don't have enough recent evidence expect my personal opinion. That drives me crazy. God, all this annoying NH fans (the rabid ones) ... this troll better be worth it Kishi.

When/if NaruSaku is proven canon, I am getting PAYBACK.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 28 December 2012 - 01:44 PM.

They're posting desmotivational things since 615 launched this thread is a pretty example of it.
there are a lots of "NH is canon!" and people posting with multiple accounts.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 28 December 2012 - 01:44 PM.

Yes is truth that Naruto on Hinata might spend more time my honest guess might be a few panels max, but it's also truth that while this is going on we might also get that push we always wanted Sakura to have while thinking that she might lose Naruto's affection to someone else who also likes him.

Am pretty sure people were always wishing for something to happen to show Sakura's true color but for some reason they cannot handle it now, people I'm telling you that SS somehow felt more convincing than NH and we all know how that went.

So no there is nothing to worry about at lease I didn't feel that way when I'm very easy to get worry over stuff, this Hinata stuff was needed to get it out the way, Hinata confronting Naruto after a redeemed Sasuke will be something to worry about, but NH focus when we don't know how Sakura feels about Naruto, her reaction to NH, no NS interaction, Naruto feelings for Sakura has not being shown to change, Find a girl like me, parallels, team 7 moments are still events that are pending for a conclusion.
Naruto is not fickle and if we believe that, then we are not truly the Naruto fans we say we are, everything in this Manga has a reason and Kishi always try to explain that reason, so until that moment happen in the manga nothing has changed, plus I don't see anyone pointing out that Hinata was clearly in fan girl mode over Naruto 2 minutes after Neji died.

The main point we need to acknowledge is that Hinata is easily getting everything she has wanted and going by the history of this Manga, no one easily get what they wanted 72 chapters before the story ends, it's too good to be true.

Finally if Kishi wanted NH and not a pairing tension them he would of made Naruto feeling for Sakura and Hinata clear by now and not show Sakura shocked expression.

It might be truth that Hinata is outshining Sakura right now, but for all Hinata one track minded personality and her desire to get Naruto's attention I think it was necessary, would it lead to NH? Maybe but I don't think right now, plus something tells me that Naruto and Sakura will have the last say to any pairing future.

I can't agree with this part of your statement. Sakura specifically says she was "still here" when she and Naruto were crying together after Sasuke left them again. She has stated countless times that, nomatter what he's said, she and everyone else would be with him. We have seen her look sad when she realised Hinata risked her life for Naruto. Sure, Sakura's priority in life isn't solely Naruto's satellite, but it would be unfortunate to ignore what she has said in the past.

The thing that bothers people is that Sakura has been completely sidelined for Hinata, who already has had a very big role in the last arc. Not Ino, Tenten or Shino, who could do well with a time in the spotlight for a change.

Yes, which is exactly my point that, while TECHNICALLY the timing of the flashback is likely before Hinata's confession-(as I see the buildings in Konoha mostly look unscathed), from the POV of a writer, showing this flashback after the Pain arc serves to reinforce Naruto's feelings for Sakura despite Hinata's confession.

@James S Cassidy

Don't worry, I know you're just giving your opinion

Well, imo I would agree Kishi HAS made Shikamaru quite prominent. He's often the leader of sorts of the Rookies, and to be honest, clearly portrayed as the most adult of the Rookies- his acknowledgement that they had to accept that Sasuke was beyond redemption, how he took his father and Asuma's deaths. I'm okay with it, because I like that Shikamaru has been developed to that extent he is this sort of de facto leader. This is of course my pov, and I understand why you might be disappointed if you envisioned more literal teamwork and character interactions.

I respectly disagree with the idea that Naruto's lesson has been recycled over and over. When Naruto was younger, a lot of it was about him not giving up despite the odds against him. IMO this most recent example, it is Naruto having to accept that he shouldn't be feeling that the burden is entirely on him to protect his friends- that it's a two-way thing, his friends are also willing to protect him, and that if they die doing so, he shouldn't feel he has 'failed' them. Naruto, imo, is still pretty idealistic. He has never seen the kind of war Kakashi and Jiraiya have, where you have to accept that some of your friends might die. I think there is a huge difference between hearing your friend has died and actually seeing them die right in front of you, especially if they sacrificed themselves to protect you- so I don't think Naruto's momentary shock was entirely unreasonable.

It's Naruto's high expectations that he would 'never go back on his words'- in this case, protecting his friends. When Neji died, I think Naruto felt he really failed on his nindo there (not just the idea of never giving up, but of always managing to do what he promised.)

This is just how I view it

Edited by fireandice, 28 December 2012 - 02:03 PM.

I think most of the fandom has accepted it as a naruhina moment, not because they're kissing or declaring reciprocated love, but because they shared a connection together here.

Most of the fandom didn't take Sakura's confession well. Kishimoto himself said that he was surprised by the negative reaction (that Sakura wasn't being heroine-like).

it's better that Kishi has something in his mind, but at the current status I'm a few pessimistic since I know already that there will be other NH hints in next chapters...

I hope he's trolling but i don't want deceive myself, not anymore. Just now I'm learning to lost interest towards this manga and, above all, Kishimoto.

Guys, let us realize that each week, when a chapter come out, I even fear for starting to read it because I'm worrying to find some NH bullsh**... And this mood is just... TERRIBLE.

My reply to you.


Choji and Shikamaru were replaced to have Hinata support Ino.

Kakashi and Guy + the alliance were replace to show of the Hyugas.

Shikamaru and Ino's dad's death were completely forgetting because off the Hyugas

Naruto the Beast in Sage mode was made a wimp to have Hinata shine when Pain one Punch KO her bu Naruto SM manages to defeat Pain.

Neji die but the focus did not change to his Teammates for two full panels it stayed with Hinata.

Naruto was made a p*ssy when he actually tell Tobi that his plan will never work on Him.

Tsunade was left almost dead and Naruto was told by Madara that they might be dead but it has being forgetting

And Neji's dead was Ignored by Hinata thinking that Naruto's hands ere so big and manly.

So if everyone is being made non factor when it comes to Hinata, why does it only bother us when Sakura gets the same treatment all of the rest are currently gating?

Will Hinata be killed By Tobi or Madara, I don't know but Normally a non factor character to a plot who fcus normally gets forced on the fans tens to die.

Edited by Don-kun, 28 December 2012 - 02:17 PM.

Now you know why i'm against of NH and SS people on this website.
They're just here to make us give up and accept their pairing nonetheless, if i really wanted to debate with them i would be at NF.
You will wait 1000 years for a reply.
But no they are here, doing new accounts and throwing those nonsense on our faces.


There are a lot of NS fans here with different thoughts, there are people who i want to understand like luffy1q and etc, and their arguments, reading what the other NS fans think, now i enter here and i have to deal with this.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 28 December 2012 - 02:38 PM.

Well, it will be ok because I'm sure can offer our perspective, backed with facts. I'm sure Poison wasn't being deliberately confrontational... It was just her interpretation.

I feel like I'm a very bad person for enjoying the meltdown .

Naruto's character has been like that during part 2, he breaks down and someone else has to bring him back, compared to his part 1 self he really looks weak he's been given pep talks by the whole Naruto's cast. Lastly it was Itachi the walking contradiction who gave him his lesson and when I read it I couldn't stop laughing but I admit Kishimoto surpassed himself with this chapter Hinata the weakest character who has no character development and whose only toughts concerns Naruto Kun is suddenly ths fount of wisdom and gives him a new lesson, well not really new but you catch my drift, it is forced and contrived I can ony laugh but I was execpting something like that because Naruto's character are so inconsistent , they are not the driving force of the plot, they are puppet of the plot whatever seems convenient at the time will force these characters to act accordingly even if it seems OOC , compared to part 1 the characters make no sense.
What is funny too is Hinata seems so unaffected by Neji's death, a bit like the readers I guess, it's laughable the only thing she thinks about at the end of the chapter is Nauto's kun hand which is so warm who cares if your cousin died she's happy she can hold her idol's arm, it's just pathetic.
I don't know if Hinata's time to shine is over or not, I still think she will get an other time to shine (and I'm gonna enjoy the subsequent meltdown) but it will be soon over.

Now onto the whole NH and NS debate I don't think it's the end for NS I think it's the contrary and it's the end of NH, Hinata got what she wanted she will fight by his side as forced and stupid as it is but she won't go after him when it's all over, if NH is the endgame then it's too early for it to happen and there's too much that has still not been resolved for this to make any sense, I may think Kishi is a lousy writer but he's consistent in the long run it's just the execution that is terrible.
I also think Sakura will soon get her time to shine but first some other characters like Hinata need to be developped, I do believe tough Sakura's time to shine will be equally as forced as the Hinata bullsh** we had to stomach, I know people here will be happy if Sakura gets some well deserved spotlight but I don't trust Kishi to make it believable in any way shape or form.

A little advice tough : I think people should take a break, 2 months seems reasonable forget a bit about Naruto then come back and if you're still not pleased with the direction the manga is taking just drop it or become a cynic like me, it's not healthy to angst over a manga which is below average at best.

Yeah, Sakura never was at Naruto's side so NH is canon.
OK.

@Weltall which i told before, a single NS moment of just Naruto stating that he loves Sakura again, is suffice to make that moment worthless in terms of romance, bad for NH is that Hinata's character development ended, she got what she wanted.
But the bad of it, it was forced and sounded bizarre and out of place, Neji just died, ok if they were in a war but hinata seems like she was innafected.
Looked more like Naruto was Neji's cousin than hinata.

Both NH and NS are 50/50 because both need only one development now, NH needs Naruto , and NS needs Sakura.
For NH fans dont come up with hurr durr "Naruto give up on sakura on that confession arc", Naruto knew that sakura loved sasuke since the begining of part 1 and in the middle of all those SS hugs he still loves her, your argument of saying that Naruto moved on from Sakura is laughable because you guys use the "offscreen" argument.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 28 December 2012 - 02:50 PM.

My disappointment about this chapter goes much further than shipping wars. I mean, Neji just died and we did not even get a decent reaction from his team? The least I expected was a panel for each of the remaining members of the team Gai, showing the shock / anger / anguish they were experiencing. Hell, I was expecting Lee to go ballistic over it. But no, what Kishimoto gives us is a tiny panel with all three of them!! (BTW, I only recognized Tenten by the Mickey Mouse hairstyle)

I also don't like how weak Naruto came off in this chapter. He's the main character, for God's sake!! Everyone expects him to be strong and stubborn no matter what. What, all those pep talks from Jiraiya, Minato, Gaara and Tsunade went to waste, just like that?

We know that Naruto isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. But don't try to make him dumber than he already is. Respect (at minimum) your main character, Kishimoto!

No, I envisioned Shikamaru to be the logic behind the emotional mess that is Naruto. The guy who reminds Naruto about reality and how harsh it can be while maintaining the idea that nothing is ever written in stone. Kishi has said that Shikamaru was going to play a bigger role and that he was going to be Naruto's right hand man. So far, he has done no such thing. Yeah he has kept the army together and faced is own problems, but right-hand man was supposed to be for Shikamaru's development, but for Naruto's

I myself have a right-hand man. I sometimes call him my wing man because he has helped me on more occasions than ever. He kept me grounded on earth and helped me see reality when I couldn't. That's a right-hand man by my definition and Shikmaru has done no such thing.



It would have been fine except he has been told several times. How many people have told him that he wasn't alone in this fight? How many have told him to not ignore his friends and to realize that he wasn't the only one fighting? How many times was this message written in the pages and said in many different variations with the same message over and over? The last time this message was brought up it was with Itachi which happened, if by manga time standards, was not, but a day or two ago

What next? Sasuke is going to die and Sakura is going to cheer him up saying the same thing over again? Even Neji before he died said it to him and he was still willing to give up to Obito if Hinata didn't stop him. This, this was just sloppy. There could have been more clever ways with more important characters to give the greater impact and at better moments in time. Even if Kishi had to do this. Even if he had to keep making Naruto ignorant to the truth because he refuses to listen, there were better ways to do it.

The shock was not was unreasonable, but the fact that he gave up hope like that. Neji's dying words were basically to never lose hope and that everyone makes their own choices. Naruto couldn't even listen to that. He couldn't even listen to his friend's dying words and take them to heart. THAT is insulting. Naruto just didn't even listen.

Naruto getting upset is a normal response. Naruto losing hope even when his dying friend told him not to is crap and I don't buy it. It's forced.

Is that how stupid Naruto is? You have to wait till someone dies before it finally clicks? And then he had to be reminded AGAIN about everything everyone has done for him. Come on. Really? How many more times must Naruto be reminded that he is not alone? Now it just feels forced.



I would think he got this message when he fought Pein to be honest. Seeing how almost everyone died. Naruto didn't know Nagato could bring everyone back. He didn't know that at all and Kakashi even died. Did he give up hope there? No. That's is what makes this hard to believe, because Kakashi wasn't killed in front of him it is not so bad? See, if it were me I would not feel hopelessness from my friend dying. I would be angry and upset, but I wouldn't give up like that. If my dying friend told me to never give up and keep fighting, I wouldn't just give up like that.

Every time I think Naruto makes progress, he is constantly being pushed back two steps to a point where like everything everyone has told him was ignored. He doesn't listen. And this time it wasn't to prove a point or make Naruto practice what he preaches. This time, it was all about giving Hinata development. I can see no other reason than to force more development on Hinata which is sad to think that that is what it takes to give this character to push forward.

To me, this is what it feels like. It feels like Naruto just doesn't learn until it is too late and this chapter was just so Hinata could get development at a high cost.



That's not good writing in my opinion. If you have to keep using the same techniques over and over again to get some dramatic response out of someone, then you lose the "shock and awe" feeling.

Naruto should have been wiser around the Pein Arc when more important and closer people to him actually did die.

I think Yahtzee said it best when he talked about MW2: Remember the shock and awe we got when the nuke exploded? Not only does this happen in MW2, it happens three times. You lose the "shock" from the shock and awe when it feels like all you're doing is repeating it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 December 2012 - 03:05 PM.

Hi,
so the storm is finally passed or are we at the eye of the storm?


Take care,
pc123

Edited by primary colours123, 28 December 2012 - 03:01 PM.

This by far, is not much how things are happening is more about how Kishi is forcing things to happen, since Itachi Izanami and Sasuke sudden change of attitude I kind of reading this Manga the same way you drive your Car, meaning that I'm prepared for anything since I'm in driven in a defensive move.

Huh. Okay then. I'm curious to see what happens next.

Though, my NaruSaku enthusiasm's been brought down though.

But, what the hell, I wanna finish the series anyway!


Oh, and jeez, calm down fellas. If it does end up as NH, I expect we'll get a greater outpouring of good NaruSaku fanfics, which will be awesome.