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Good topic. Feelin' the Sakura love.
I'll just say that, outside of the obvious reasons to support NS, supporting any main ship in this manga involves a buying into Naruto's double standard.
What works for Naruto, doesn't exactly work for Sakura, and certainly doesn't work for Hinata.
Naruto is praised for sticking by his dream. And that loyalty will eventually be rewarded. He's the hero, this is how it works.
But for Sakura, the surface-level motivation in Part 1 was Sasuke. If you ship SS, and you apply the "sticking by your dream" principle, then yeah...Sakura should still be hung up on Sakura.
This same scenario applies to NaruHina, and the NH-ers use it far and wide. Naruto sticks by his dream (of being Hokage, of course) and is duly rewarded; Hinata sticks by her dream of being with Naruto and thus should be duly rewarded.
And even shipping NS means you have to make the "sticking by your dream" thing invalid for the SS and NH relationships.
So what works for NS doesn't work for everything in the Naruto world. (And our world as well.)
Now this is a black-and-white interpretation. Of course people use their mind and see what's good or bad for them. Or when being loyal puts you in harm's way (Sasuke and Sakura). Or when one love is steadily growing while another is fading away. All these things affect the outcome.
But for any other character than Naruto, the double standard reflects badly on their character: Sakura would be seen as foolishly loyal for picking Sasuke; Hinata is seen as having a childhood crush on Naruto. Neither of these loyal behaviors are seen as positive. While Naruto's love for Sakura and pursuit of Sasuke are praised as the work of a true hero. (Well, you know what I mean. In the scope of the manga.)
Anyway, the double standard makes it impossible for these characters to ship someone else without looking bad themselves. The only way to make it work is if Sakura or Hinata goes rogue and chooses Lee or Ko — someone completely unconnected with the hero's journey and it's tropes.
If Sakura still loves Sasuke why is she not worthy of respect?
Started by ramenanmitsu, Mar 14 2012 06:26 AM
182 replies to this topic
#22
Anguyen92
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:54 PM
QUOTE (tricksie @ Mar 14 2012, 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyway, the double standard makes it impossible for these characters to ship someone else without looking bad themselves. The only way to make it work is if Sakura or Hinata goes rogue and chooses Lee or Ko — someone completely unconnected with the hero's journey and it's tropes.
Hmmmm, ok, the double standard does make it impossible, so in that sense, the final decision should be the one that edges out the other decision. As in, take both paths and decisions, weigh the positives and the negatives, and choose one that should be very good in the long run.
Edited by Anguyen92, 14 March 2012 - 11:55 PM.
#23
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:23 AM
Agree on many things above, but I'll add some stuff..
It goes against Kishi's wish that Sakura is a realistic character, I couldn't identify me with her anymore then.
I feel like she'll be running from herself and her conflicted emotions. She is a tsundere, but not around Sasuke, she becomes something she isn't. After all these feelings for Naruto, she's gonna throw them of, make a conclusion that she loves Sasuke and give him a chance?
It goes against Kishi's wish that Sakura is a realistic character, I couldn't identify me with her anymore then.
I feel like she'll be running from herself and her conflicted emotions. She is a tsundere, but not around Sasuke, she becomes something she isn't. After all these feelings for Naruto, she's gonna throw them of, make a conclusion that she loves Sasuke and give him a chance?
ナルサク
#24
James S Cassidy
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:57 AM
QUOTE (Sakura Lover @ Mar 14 2012, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kishi has to know this.
I hope he does, that's why I am not giving up on him...yet. I waiting to see what he does before I make a true judgement.
QUOTE (KeikoxYusuke @ Mar 14 2012, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
so you guys really think Sakura would be a b*tch or whatever if your fave pairing didn't happen? really? 
Not at all, because Sakura is a fictional character controlled by a writer in a story. How can anyone get mad at a character that is a figment of someone else's imagination? I would, however, criticize the author for this. If Sakura still loves Sasuke even after all he has done to her. After all the work the writer did to make him look like the bad guy, then he made a terrible writing error. I am sorry, but this always urks me in love stories of any kind. Yeah I know Naruto is not a love story, but you get my drift.
QUOTE (ciardha @ Mar 14 2012, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank you, well said. I'm certain Sakura will choose Naruto.
But I want to add something to your point, that no one seems to be seeing about Sakura. Kishimoto gave her the most agonizingly heartrendingly painful path to love of all the characters. (far, far more painful than Naruto's, and light years more painful than Lee's, as for Hinata- she clearly showed she would be quite content with Naruto and Sakura together, so there's no pain there whatsoever, she is happy just to admire him from afar.)
But I want to add something to your point, that no one seems to be seeing about Sakura. Kishimoto gave her the most agonizingly heartrendingly painful path to love of all the characters. (far, far more painful than Naruto's, and light years more painful than Lee's, as for Hinata- she clearly showed she would be quite content with Naruto and Sakura together, so there's no pain there whatsoever, she is happy just to admire him from afar.)
Again, it is hard to "see" from Sakura's perspective because we have to look at Kishimoto's perspective. We don't know what is in Sakura's head most of the time and we can't up and ask her what's up, but the writer still has full control. It's like yelling at a horror movie when the character walks into the room with the killer in it and you're trying to tell the character not to go in the room. In reality, the characters can't hear us, but it's fun to pretend like they do.
You did mention her "agonizingly heartrendly painful path to love" and such, but again this is the point of "Why?" Why put the character or characters through so much only for it to lead to nothing? Not saying Kishimoto would since he didn't do anything yet, but it is a question I do ask a lot of writers or when I read any story/manga. I always ask, what was the point of it? The reasons could be small, but at least it is a reason. Nostalgia Critic has those "Big Lipped Alligator Moments." Similar concept. A part of a story that confusing and has nothing to with the plot: It does not really further the plot nor is it mentioned ever again in the story. Not even through memory relapse. So, not hating on Sakura, but looking at the puppeteer who controls her.
I do have to disagree with you though Ciardha about Hinata being okay to "admire him from afar." If anything, the last time we saw Hinata's thoughts she is anything, but content with being in the background. Proclaiming to "hold (naruto's) hands." Just saying.
#25
KeikoxYusuke
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:08 AM
QUOTE (ciardha @ Mar 14 2012, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank you, well said. I'm certain Sakura will choose Naruto.
But I want to add something to your point, that no one seems to be seeing about Sakura. Kishimoto gave her the most agonizingly heartrendingly painful path to love of all the characters. (far, far more painful than Naruto's, and light years more painful than Lee's, as for Hinata- she clearly showed she would be quite content with Naruto and Sakura together, so there's no pain there whatsoever, she is happy just to admire him from afar.) I can just see the majority of you going- No way! Let me explain. Sakura, naive and foolish falls hard for the "cool boy". Said boy is at best utterly disdainful of her back in Team 7 days. (Remember, Sakura, even when she was really annoyed by Naruto in early part 1, would often be supportive of him in a friendly and/or caring way and at least twice in part 2 acted without a moments hesitance to protect his life over her own. No matter what else Naruto was certain of Sakura's support and friendship. Sakura had none of that with Sasuke, even in part 1 (she had no certainty of him having even supportive team mate feeling from Sasuke- he might show it briefly, then turn right around a moment later and put her down- quite harshly, not like Sakura's moments of being hacked off at Naruto when he acted stupid, gross, rude, or perverted. Naruto still knew he could absolutely count on Sakura in any kind of bad situation) where Naruto at least had something resembling a friendship/team mate bond part of the time from Sasuke, enough so he could count on it, for the most part.
Sakura is burdened with feelings for someone who at best had absolutely no feelings of affection for her at all, and was completely contemptuous of her, then add the events of part 2 on top of that. Sakura knows Sasuke has willingly become a monster who threatens the world. She is sickened and ashamed that she still harbors remnants of any feelings for someone so terrible. It's like a knife in her heart striking over and over. She has to carry this, it makes her think she's a lousy and weak person. No one has told her that it's really hard to cut emotional bonds, and the deeper they go the harder it is. That's the deepest bond of all.
She deeply loves Naruto, far more than she ever did Sasuke. (Even in early 1 part there was a semiconscious attraction to Naruto, something that became fully conscious the very moment he made the promise of a lifetime to her.) Even in part 1, time and again it's Naruto she thinks of, Sasuke is an afterthought at best nearly every time. It's Naruto that she trusted implicitly, even in early part 1.
Rather than the mass spewing contempt for Sakura for her choices, look at the situation through her eyes. I think this is what startles Kishimoto about the hatred directed toward her character- he intended for readers to see the situation through her eyes and expected readers to be intensely sympathetic to her. To "feel her pain".
But I want to add something to your point, that no one seems to be seeing about Sakura. Kishimoto gave her the most agonizingly heartrendingly painful path to love of all the characters. (far, far more painful than Naruto's, and light years more painful than Lee's, as for Hinata- she clearly showed she would be quite content with Naruto and Sakura together, so there's no pain there whatsoever, she is happy just to admire him from afar.) I can just see the majority of you going- No way! Let me explain. Sakura, naive and foolish falls hard for the "cool boy". Said boy is at best utterly disdainful of her back in Team 7 days. (Remember, Sakura, even when she was really annoyed by Naruto in early part 1, would often be supportive of him in a friendly and/or caring way and at least twice in part 2 acted without a moments hesitance to protect his life over her own. No matter what else Naruto was certain of Sakura's support and friendship. Sakura had none of that with Sasuke, even in part 1 (she had no certainty of him having even supportive team mate feeling from Sasuke- he might show it briefly, then turn right around a moment later and put her down- quite harshly, not like Sakura's moments of being hacked off at Naruto when he acted stupid, gross, rude, or perverted. Naruto still knew he could absolutely count on Sakura in any kind of bad situation) where Naruto at least had something resembling a friendship/team mate bond part of the time from Sasuke, enough so he could count on it, for the most part.
Sakura is burdened with feelings for someone who at best had absolutely no feelings of affection for her at all, and was completely contemptuous of her, then add the events of part 2 on top of that. Sakura knows Sasuke has willingly become a monster who threatens the world. She is sickened and ashamed that she still harbors remnants of any feelings for someone so terrible. It's like a knife in her heart striking over and over. She has to carry this, it makes her think she's a lousy and weak person. No one has told her that it's really hard to cut emotional bonds, and the deeper they go the harder it is. That's the deepest bond of all.
She deeply loves Naruto, far more than she ever did Sasuke. (Even in early 1 part there was a semiconscious attraction to Naruto, something that became fully conscious the very moment he made the promise of a lifetime to her.) Even in part 1, time and again it's Naruto she thinks of, Sasuke is an afterthought at best nearly every time. It's Naruto that she trusted implicitly, even in early part 1.
Rather than the mass spewing contempt for Sakura for her choices, look at the situation through her eyes. I think this is what startles Kishimoto about the hatred directed toward her character- he intended for readers to see the situation through her eyes and expected readers to be intensely sympathetic to her. To "feel her pain".
^This! I agree with completly! Sakura has had to go though so much, so innocent and unable to understand what to do. how could I ever hate her? this puts into words how I feel perfectly!
thx for understanding me! 
#26
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:50 AM
I don't think anyone will hate Sakura I don't think I will, but I will be highly disappointed in Kishi. My comments are about how 90% of the fans will see Sakura, the message Kishi will send to reader, and the fact that she clearly show that Naruto is much more important to her for then to choose Sasuke for no reason, they give us a reason why she will love a guy like Naruto but never a good reason why she still likes Sasuke only the fact that maybe Kishi lives through Sakura because there is no other logic explination for why Sakura will still love a guy like him.
So again I will never Hate Sakura, but I will only be highly disappointed on Kishi.
@tricksie
I am Ok with Sakura and any good character, but not with SS I hate that couple...
I also am ok with NH is just that I start hating the pairing because of the NHners and the fact that they bash Sakura too much...
So again I will never Hate Sakura, but I will only be highly disappointed on Kishi.
@tricksie
I am Ok with Sakura and any good character, but not with SS I hate that couple...
I also am ok with NH is just that I start hating the pairing because of the NHners and the fact that they bash Sakura too much...
#27
merryGOflava
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:10 AM
i will kinda lose respect for her. i like her but....it wouldnt be right.
1) sasuke never liked her. (maybe at one point as a friend but not romantically)
2) why does she like him to begin with?????
3) shes just hurting herself.
4) naruto does like her, and has been there for her.
5) all that development between naruto and sakura is for nothing...that would be bitter.
6)...................i would feel sorry for naruto............
7) i hate to pull this card....but sasuke did try and kill her XD.......more than once. (but he tried to kill naruto also. but not behind his back like sakura!! thats just wrong)
so yea. i would lose respect for her. i know whatever feelings she has right now is just for development, so its okay. but if she still loves sasuke....i would lose it........it would be just annoying.....and a waste of something awesome.
kishi better not be trollin
1) sasuke never liked her. (maybe at one point as a friend but not romantically)
2) why does she like him to begin with?????
3) shes just hurting herself.
4) naruto does like her, and has been there for her.
5) all that development between naruto and sakura is for nothing...that would be bitter.
6)...................i would feel sorry for naruto............
7) i hate to pull this card....but sasuke did try and kill her XD.......more than once. (but he tried to kill naruto also. but not behind his back like sakura!! thats just wrong)
so yea. i would lose respect for her. i know whatever feelings she has right now is just for development, so its okay. but if she still loves sasuke....i would lose it........it would be just annoying.....and a waste of something awesome.
kishi better not be trollin
#28
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:06 AM
Why do we still argue this? We've gone over it at least half a dozen times.
#29
merryGOflava
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:23 AM
QUOTE (Dragunov @ Mar 15 2012, 05:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why do we still argue this? We've gone over it at least half a dozen times.
we've gone over lots of things over and over again XD
but as the chapters roll by views change
besides its fun~~
#30
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:42 AM
I am absolutely certain there is nothing to worry about, Sakura will choose Naruto.
What I'm making the point of is readers misunderstand that Kishimoto is making a point about emotional bonds. Sakura's heavily burdened by the painful emotional bond she feels toward Sasuke. It will not cause any obstacles with her feelings for Naruto (we've seen that all along- even back in early part 1 when her feelings for Naruto were semiconscious).
It's Naruto who caused the obstacle- with mistaken image of Sakura as the 12 year old naive Sasuke fangirl, that keep him from seeing Sakura's blatantly obvious love for Naruto in part 2 (obvious enough that in early part 2 Yamato and Sai immediately picked up on Sakura's romantic love for Naruto (note how neither picked up on Naruto's romantic love for Sakura as quickly)
Kishimoto is making the point again (like he did with the Sanin and other examples) that one can care deeply about someone even if they turned out bad. (Sasuke and Itachi's bond is another example- the bond is intense between the brothers, but highly dysfunctional.) One has to carry on and figure out a way to deal with having the remnants of an emotional bond to people who aren't that great. It's part of growing up. In Japanese culture it's even harder to make that break than it is in the west- especially with group or familial bonds.
In the west we've become more comfortable with breaking bonds with "toxic people"- including family members, but we don't seem to see that every bond we have, even with those "toxic people" is something we will carry fragments of for the rest of our lives. That's what Kishimoto is showing. Sakura tried to adopt the western psychological theory- immediately break the all the bonds of a toxic person on you, but it's "lying to yourself"- it's not that simple. You can't shut out those fragments- they will always be there, but you must learn how to process that bond in a way where it will no longer cause fresh wounds on your psyche.
Sakura is in a very painful place with her bond to Sasuke. She has to learn how to process that bond so it doesn't inflict fresh feelings of shame. Naruto and she do need to have a talk about Sasuke- not in the sense of it causing any barriers on her side, but so they can hash out the bond they both feel to Sasuke and how to make it less a burden on their souls.
What I'm making the point of is readers misunderstand that Kishimoto is making a point about emotional bonds. Sakura's heavily burdened by the painful emotional bond she feels toward Sasuke. It will not cause any obstacles with her feelings for Naruto (we've seen that all along- even back in early part 1 when her feelings for Naruto were semiconscious).
It's Naruto who caused the obstacle- with mistaken image of Sakura as the 12 year old naive Sasuke fangirl, that keep him from seeing Sakura's blatantly obvious love for Naruto in part 2 (obvious enough that in early part 2 Yamato and Sai immediately picked up on Sakura's romantic love for Naruto (note how neither picked up on Naruto's romantic love for Sakura as quickly)
Kishimoto is making the point again (like he did with the Sanin and other examples) that one can care deeply about someone even if they turned out bad. (Sasuke and Itachi's bond is another example- the bond is intense between the brothers, but highly dysfunctional.) One has to carry on and figure out a way to deal with having the remnants of an emotional bond to people who aren't that great. It's part of growing up. In Japanese culture it's even harder to make that break than it is in the west- especially with group or familial bonds.
In the west we've become more comfortable with breaking bonds with "toxic people"- including family members, but we don't seem to see that every bond we have, even with those "toxic people" is something we will carry fragments of for the rest of our lives. That's what Kishimoto is showing. Sakura tried to adopt the western psychological theory- immediately break the all the bonds of a toxic person on you, but it's "lying to yourself"- it's not that simple. You can't shut out those fragments- they will always be there, but you must learn how to process that bond in a way where it will no longer cause fresh wounds on your psyche.
Sakura is in a very painful place with her bond to Sasuke. She has to learn how to process that bond so it doesn't inflict fresh feelings of shame. Naruto and she do need to have a talk about Sasuke- not in the sense of it causing any barriers on her side, but so they can hash out the bond they both feel to Sasuke and how to make it less a burden on their souls.
Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#31
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:47 AM
QUOTE (ciardha @ Mar 14 2012, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am absolutely certain there is nothing to worry about, Sakura will choose Naruto.
What I'm making the point of is readers misunderstand that Kishimoto is making a point about emotional bonds. Sakura's heavily burdened by the painful emotional bond she feels toward Sasuke. It will not cause any obstacles with her feelings for Naruto (we've seen that all along- even back in early part 1 when her feelings for Naruto were semiconscious).
It's Naruto who caused the obstacle- with mistaken image of Sakura as the 12 year old naive Sasuke fangirl, that keep him from seeing Sakura's blatantly obvious love for Naruto in part 2 (obvious enough that in early part 2 Yamato and Sai immediately picked up on Sakura's romantic love for Naruto (note how neither picked up on Naruto's romantic love for Sakura as quickly)
Kishimoto is making the point again (like he did with the Sanin and other examples) that one can care deeply about someone even if they turned out bad. (Sasuke and Itachi's bond is another example- the bond is intense between the brothers, but highly dysfunctional.) One has to carry on and figure out a way to deal with having the remnants of an emotional bond to people who aren't that great. It's part of growing up. In Japanese culture it's even harder to make that break than it is in the west- especially with group or familial bonds.
In the west we've become more comfortable with breaking bonds with "toxic people"- including family members, but we don't seem to see that every bond we have, even with those "toxic people" is something we will carry fragments of for the rest of our lives. That's what Kishimoto is showing. Sakura tried to adopt the western psychological theory- immediately break the all the bonds of a toxic person on you, but it's "lying to yourself"- it's not that simple. You can't shut out those fragments- they will always be there, but you must learn how to process that bond in a way where it will no longer cause fresh wounds on your psyche.
Sakura is in a very painful place with her bond to Sasuke. She has to learn how to process that bond so it doesn't inflict fresh feelings of shame. Naruto and she do need to have a talk about Sasuke- not in the sense of it causing any barriers on her side, but so they can hash out the bond they both feel to Sasuke and how to make it less a burden on their souls.
What I'm making the point of is readers misunderstand that Kishimoto is making a point about emotional bonds. Sakura's heavily burdened by the painful emotional bond she feels toward Sasuke. It will not cause any obstacles with her feelings for Naruto (we've seen that all along- even back in early part 1 when her feelings for Naruto were semiconscious).
It's Naruto who caused the obstacle- with mistaken image of Sakura as the 12 year old naive Sasuke fangirl, that keep him from seeing Sakura's blatantly obvious love for Naruto in part 2 (obvious enough that in early part 2 Yamato and Sai immediately picked up on Sakura's romantic love for Naruto (note how neither picked up on Naruto's romantic love for Sakura as quickly)
Kishimoto is making the point again (like he did with the Sanin and other examples) that one can care deeply about someone even if they turned out bad. (Sasuke and Itachi's bond is another example- the bond is intense between the brothers, but highly dysfunctional.) One has to carry on and figure out a way to deal with having the remnants of an emotional bond to people who aren't that great. It's part of growing up. In Japanese culture it's even harder to make that break than it is in the west- especially with group or familial bonds.
In the west we've become more comfortable with breaking bonds with "toxic people"- including family members, but we don't seem to see that every bond we have, even with those "toxic people" is something we will carry fragments of for the rest of our lives. That's what Kishimoto is showing. Sakura tried to adopt the western psychological theory- immediately break the all the bonds of a toxic person on you, but it's "lying to yourself"- it's not that simple. You can't shut out those fragments- they will always be there, but you must learn how to process that bond in a way where it will no longer cause fresh wounds on your psyche.
Sakura is in a very painful place with her bond to Sasuke. She has to learn how to process that bond so it doesn't inflict fresh feelings of shame. Naruto and she do need to have a talk about Sasuke- not in the sense of it causing any barriers on her side, but so they can hash out the bond they both feel to Sasuke and how to make it less a burden on their souls.
MAN!!! Someone needs to save all you say, ciardha! You're a bloody genius about this kinda thing, girl!
:D No BS!
#32
catsi563
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:55 AM
QUOTE
Sakura is in a very painful place with her bond to Sasuke. She has to learn how to process that bond so it doesn't inflict fresh feelings of shame. Naruto and she do need to have a talk about Sasuke- not in the sense of it causing any barriers on her side, but so they can hash out the bond they both feel to Sasuke and how to make it less a burden on their souls.
To add in to this part, this is why I stay firm that the bench scene will be revisited some time very soon. Its the mistaken notion from the bench scene that I feel is still holding Sakura to those painful bonds, and it is the revelation of the truth about that moment that will finally heal her of them.
My dear you deserve a great wizard, but im afraid you'll have to settle for services of a second rate pick pocket - Smendrick The Last Unicorn
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Catsis Fan Fiction
..(^)> PENGUIN!!!!
C(...)D
..m.m
Training with a sannin 2 1/2 years
new pair of gloves 20 ryou
the look on your best friend, and former sensei's face's when you cause a small earth quake. Princeless
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#33
Konoha'sCrimsonFox
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:43 AM
This is certainly a great topic to debate. It's not the problem that Sakura loves, or think she's in love with Sasuke. It's the fact that she hasn't come clean and apologize to Naruto for lying that she doesn't love Sasuke anymore according to that one panel. There is nothing that can be done with loving someone that clings to darkness. But Sakura has the power to confess to Naruto that heart belongs to Sasuke. Not him. It's been proven in the past chapters that she nicely rejected a random guy, and has no feeling whatsoever for Lee but a friendship.
But the question is why not Naruto? Why can't she confirmed her "true feeling" and let Naruto move on. Is it guilty, regret, or a romantic affection that is sprout profoundly from the depths of her heart? Sure, in part 1, she had no problems rejecting and berating Naruto. Why not now? I ask myself the same old question, and can only come to a theory that she loves them both, but Sasuke being her gold medal and Naruto being her silver medal--trapped between her two boys she loves. She's a emotional wreck.
I agree with some above, till she get her head check and finally decides whats good for her. I totally lost respect for her character, because her feelings for Sasuke could be the death of Naruto in numerous ways.
But the question is why not Naruto? Why can't she confirmed her "true feeling" and let Naruto move on. Is it guilty, regret, or a romantic affection that is sprout profoundly from the depths of her heart? Sure, in part 1, she had no problems rejecting and berating Naruto. Why not now? I ask myself the same old question, and can only come to a theory that she loves them both, but Sasuke being her gold medal and Naruto being her silver medal--trapped between her two boys she loves. She's a emotional wreck.
I agree with some above, till she get her head check and finally decides whats good for her. I totally lost respect for her character, because her feelings for Sasuke could be the death of Naruto in numerous ways.
"My name is Sung Ji-woo. Some called me the Assassin of Death. A Necromancer Deity... My journey has been nothing but walking over a mountain of corpses. My legion of the dead reigns supreme. None shall block my way or... face the wrath of my blades!" --Solo Leveling.
#34
James S Cassidy
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:21 PM
QUOTE (ciardha @ Mar 14 2012, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am absolutely certain there is nothing to worry about, Sakura will choose Naruto.
What I'm making the point of is readers misunderstand that Kishimoto is making a point about emotional bonds. Sakura's heavily burdened by the painful emotional bond she feels toward Sasuke. It will not cause any obstacles with her feelings for Naruto (we've seen that all along- even back in early part 1 when her feelings for Naruto were semiconscious).
It's Naruto who caused the obstacle- with mistaken image of Sakura as the 12 year old naive Sasuke fangirl, that keep him from seeing Sakura's blatantly obvious love for Naruto in part 2 (obvious enough that in early part 2 Yamato and Sai immediately picked up on Sakura's romantic love for Naruto (note how neither picked up on Naruto's romantic love for Sakura as quickly)
Kishimoto is making the point again (like he did with the Sanin and other examples) that one can care deeply about someone even if they turned out bad. (Sasuke and Itachi's bond is another example- the bond is intense between the brothers, but highly dysfunctional.) One has to carry on and figure out a way to deal with having the remnants of an emotional bond to people who aren't that great. It's part of growing up. In Japanese culture it's even harder to make that break than it is in the west- especially with group or familial bonds.
In the west we've become more comfortable with breaking bonds with "toxic people"- including family members, but we don't seem to see that every bond we have, even with those "toxic people" is something we will carry fragments of for the rest of our lives. That's what Kishimoto is showing. Sakura tried to adopt the western psychological theory- immediately break the all the bonds of a toxic person on you, but it's "lying to yourself"- it's not that simple. You can't shut out those fragments- they will always be there, but you must learn how to process that bond in a way where it will no longer cause fresh wounds on your psyche.
Sakura is in a very painful place with her bond to Sasuke. She has to learn how to process that bond so it doesn't inflict fresh feelings of shame. Naruto and she do need to have a talk about Sasuke- not in the sense of it causing any barriers on her side, but so they can hash out the bond they both feel to Sasuke and how to make it less a burden on their souls.
What I'm making the point of is readers misunderstand that Kishimoto is making a point about emotional bonds. Sakura's heavily burdened by the painful emotional bond she feels toward Sasuke. It will not cause any obstacles with her feelings for Naruto (we've seen that all along- even back in early part 1 when her feelings for Naruto were semiconscious).
It's Naruto who caused the obstacle- with mistaken image of Sakura as the 12 year old naive Sasuke fangirl, that keep him from seeing Sakura's blatantly obvious love for Naruto in part 2 (obvious enough that in early part 2 Yamato and Sai immediately picked up on Sakura's romantic love for Naruto (note how neither picked up on Naruto's romantic love for Sakura as quickly)
Kishimoto is making the point again (like he did with the Sanin and other examples) that one can care deeply about someone even if they turned out bad. (Sasuke and Itachi's bond is another example- the bond is intense between the brothers, but highly dysfunctional.) One has to carry on and figure out a way to deal with having the remnants of an emotional bond to people who aren't that great. It's part of growing up. In Japanese culture it's even harder to make that break than it is in the west- especially with group or familial bonds.
In the west we've become more comfortable with breaking bonds with "toxic people"- including family members, but we don't seem to see that every bond we have, even with those "toxic people" is something we will carry fragments of for the rest of our lives. That's what Kishimoto is showing. Sakura tried to adopt the western psychological theory- immediately break the all the bonds of a toxic person on you, but it's "lying to yourself"- it's not that simple. You can't shut out those fragments- they will always be there, but you must learn how to process that bond in a way where it will no longer cause fresh wounds on your psyche.
Sakura is in a very painful place with her bond to Sasuke. She has to learn how to process that bond so it doesn't inflict fresh feelings of shame. Naruto and she do need to have a talk about Sasuke- not in the sense of it causing any barriers on her side, but so they can hash out the bond they both feel to Sasuke and how to make it less a burden on their souls.
^ This basically.
I just hope all that...the suffering, the traumatic experiences, the fluxing emotions, and unsure-ness of who or what they want does not go to waste. This is my biggest fear. It would waste the "development" and makes it turn back on itself.
Sometimes the "western psychology" is a stupid one. As we know, there are some people that believe "He is a bad guy, but because I love him, he will be a good guy." This is kind of the argument is what the SS usually base their idea from. Not all do, but most I see use this as a jumping off point. They think Sakura is the only one to bring him back because her love for him is so strong. But alas, this could also be the same for Naruto's plight. Can't his brotherly love bring him back as well? It's not unreasonable to think that that could happen too.
That last thing I want to see is a Twilight kind of romance between Sakura and Sasuke (Yeah I read the first book....biggest regret I ever made), but since Sasuke has repeatedly never really cared for Sakura nor has trusted her, this is unlikely it is going to happen.
As for who fault it really is, kind of both Sakura's AND Naruto's fault. They actually do know they love each other, but are so afraid to hurt the other they don't want to push it. Yeah Sakura is unsure about her feelings for Sasuke, but as you said she does love Naruto.
#35
dokueki(venom)
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:41 PM
I haven't read much on this topic so this is just my opinion as always. I like Sakura and I will never loose respect for her. Will I be mad sure but I wouldn't put any blame on Sakura. I say if she still loves Sasuke and they become cannon. I guess I really wouldn't care that much. Am I jumping ship? No I still love Narusaku and in ten yeas I still be shipping them like I still ship GokuxBulma. If there is one thing I hate is all the bashing against her. It is everywhere Youtube, Deviantart, here and other sites. I think that Narusaku is still kinda one sided until we actually see Sakura's point of view because I think her opinion matters as well as any other. I also wouldn't blame the writer. It is his story and her can do what every he wants with it. Were just reading it. I guess my last point being is that she is a teenage girl and many are not really sure of their feelings. Even Kakashi noted that she was a normal teenage girl when they first meet. Even though they are Shinobi they are still human being and still have the same emotion. Naruto is like modern era mixed in with old Japan and Sakura does have those modern feelings in a period like time where there hardly any high tech advances. So I guess that is it. To end it I am not one of those who has anything to say negative about Sakura.
#36
harry4e
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:01 PM
I would be dissapointed with Kishi if Sasuke and Sakura ended up together at the end of the Manga, infact if i'm honest I would be dissapointed with all pairings except for Shikamaru and Temari, which I think is the only potential relationship that has been developed. Even Sakura and Naruto has been dissapointing, recently with one positive then another sign to contradict, I'm at a point where I don't really care who ends up with who at the end, I know which pairing I like and i'll stick with them even at the end.
The problem with Sasuke/Sakura has always been, the why, why does Sakura love Sasuke because beyond his looks the manga has not given any clue as to why she can claim to love him, like yes but love no. I know all the cliche's of love knows no boudries, love needs no reason etc but in every romance there is interaction between the two people in question, and there has been nothing there in that department, even as teammates there had not been any shown. Sakura and Sasuke has been a law of attraction not actual love, and if that is not shown then you can't help but be dissapointed if that is the pairing.
Even if I was a Sakura/Sasuke fan I'd feel dissapointed, same way as I would still be dissapointed if my pairing of choice ends up as cannon as Sakura has not shown that she really loves him, it's been a conflict with her since the beginning, until she can be shown to be make a clear cut choice I will not be completely happy with them being together. Same applies with Hinata and Naruto, until Hinata can show she likes Naruto for who he is and not what he represents and Naruto shows signs of actually thinking of her as more than a friend I will be dissapointed.
If Romance was not going to be one of the focal points of this manga then I would have been much happier if it was cut out completely, like Oda did with One Piece, there were obvious signs of Nami/Luffy pairing but sometime around Wave seven it all just disappeared and there has not been hints since then. The way it's been done in Naruto is too half hearted, and frankly i'd be happier if there was non of it in than the random hints we are given , that are promptly contradicted.
The problem with Sasuke/Sakura has always been, the why, why does Sakura love Sasuke because beyond his looks the manga has not given any clue as to why she can claim to love him, like yes but love no. I know all the cliche's of love knows no boudries, love needs no reason etc but in every romance there is interaction between the two people in question, and there has been nothing there in that department, even as teammates there had not been any shown. Sakura and Sasuke has been a law of attraction not actual love, and if that is not shown then you can't help but be dissapointed if that is the pairing.
Even if I was a Sakura/Sasuke fan I'd feel dissapointed, same way as I would still be dissapointed if my pairing of choice ends up as cannon as Sakura has not shown that she really loves him, it's been a conflict with her since the beginning, until she can be shown to be make a clear cut choice I will not be completely happy with them being together. Same applies with Hinata and Naruto, until Hinata can show she likes Naruto for who he is and not what he represents and Naruto shows signs of actually thinking of her as more than a friend I will be dissapointed.
If Romance was not going to be one of the focal points of this manga then I would have been much happier if it was cut out completely, like Oda did with One Piece, there were obvious signs of Nami/Luffy pairing but sometime around Wave seven it all just disappeared and there has not been hints since then. The way it's been done in Naruto is too half hearted, and frankly i'd be happier if there was non of it in than the random hints we are given , that are promptly contradicted.
#37
Konoha'sCrimsonFox
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:25 PM
The direction Kishi is taking Sakura's character is setting up to be the biggest cliche the manga world has ever seen, or not since the DBZ era. How can Sasuke suddenly fall in love with her after nearly killing her three times?
"My name is Sung Ji-woo. Some called me the Assassin of Death. A Necromancer Deity... My journey has been nothing but walking over a mountain of corpses. My legion of the dead reigns supreme. None shall block my way or... face the wrath of my blades!" --Solo Leveling.
#38
ciardha
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Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:13 AM
QUOTE (Konoha'sCrimsonFox @ Mar 15 2012, 07:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[color="orange"]This is certainly a great topic to debate. It's not the problem that Sakura loves, or think she's in love with Sasuke. It's the fact that she hasn't come clean and apologize to Naruto for lying that she doesn't love Sasuke anymore according to that one panel.
No, that's not what that panel meant at all. Sakura absolutely believed that when she made the decision to not have any feelings for Sasuke anymore that she didn't. I want to smack the translators for translating it as "lying to themselves" because too many readers don't seem to understand what that means. Lying to yourself means you are deluding yourself into believing something that you want to be the truth, but reality is much less cut and dry. Look what I posted above about bonds and how they can't be dismissed easily, even to people who have a negative impact on us...
Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#39
Guest_Kim_*
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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:35 AM
QUOTE (harry4e @ Mar 15 2012, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The problem with Sasuke/Sakura has always been, the why, why does Sakura love Sasuke because beyond his looks the manga has not given any clue as to why she can claim to love him, like yes but love no. I know all the cliche's of love knows no boudries, love needs no reason etc but in every romance there is interaction between the two people in question, and there has been nothing there in that department, even as teammates there had not been any shown. Sakura and Sasuke has been a law of attraction not actual love, and if that is not shown then you can't help but be dissapointed if that is the pairing.
I know, that is very unusual. We've never actually seen the reason she likes/loves him. The only actual reason I could pick up on is that she started liking him because well he was popular and all the girls liked him. It might have turned into something deeper because of the bench scene but it would be weird if she was just holding on to that. I mean, a guy you like treats you like you're now worthy of anything all the time but he was just nice in that one, one situation? I really want to know how she explained that to herself.
#40
Toasty Warrior
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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:47 AM
QUOTE (Kim @ Mar 16 2012, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know, that is very unusual. We've never actually seen the reason she likes/loves him. The only actual reason I could pick up on is that she started liking him because well he was popular and all the girls liked him. It might have turned into something deeper because of the bench scene but it would be weird if she was just holding on to that. I mean, a guy you like treats you like you're now worthy of anything all the time but he was just nice in that one, one situation? I really want to know how she explained that to herself.
Well, you could always look at it in a real world respective too Kim. Sasuke was Sakura's first crush, and I'll tell you from experience, getting over your first crush is always the hardest no matter how hard you try to forget. It's always going to linger there, and I believe that is the case with Sakura too. She has lingering feelings for Sasuke, and the unexplained explanation of why he was so nice to her that night at the bench although it was Naruto. I'm not too sure if she thinks he can still love her after trying to kill her, but perhaps there's still some lingering doubt in Sakura's mind that maybe Sasuke can still love her.
"They don't want none"
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